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Space05us
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How dangerous could it be in Barrow, Alaska? |
not very, but if Im pushed into a fight I'd prefer the outcome have me with a blackeye and the other guy in the hospital, not the other way around.
or to put it in Pekka terms, I want to be the one sodomizing the prom queen at the end of the day. 
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But the main point here, I think, is that for someone with NO martial arts experience and NO way to get any, advising him to learn wrestling or judo or jiujitsu is pretty stupid. You need a qualified teacher in any of those to be able to do anything. |
I was in wrestling for about 3 months in high school. I only learned the most basic takedowns and how to build up to get out from under people. I also learned a few basic lessons:
1. Unless Im Uber-Spectacular at wrestling or Uber-Strong grappling is a bad idea.
2. Getting a person on the ground is easy, keeping them there isnt. (for me at least) and just because they are on the ground it doesnt make them harmless.
3. You **** up once, just once, and the other person has the opportunity to get the upper hand.
4. if you're feeling tired or you're in pain you're still awake, keep giving it your all.
Ive also mentioned before that I have a heavy bag I knock around a few times a week, and Ive sparred with my friend before. So I know how to punch, and I kind of know what it feels like to be hit in the face. Not really though since we were wearing gloves, but I know what the shock of being punched feels like.
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And my last advice was, avoid this fight |
I would love to do just that, the only reason Im asking for advice is for if I do get into a fight. I want to have an idea of what to do because once it starts Im not going to back down.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:37
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yeah you should sodomize your enemies and do the prom queen but it's not self defense if you arrange a fight with this guy. It's a legit fight then. This howere is not always a good idea. Self defense is always a good idea. IF you mean you want to do a good old street fight, which it will be, someone might get seriously hurt. If you're willing to accept the fact that you or your opponent might have to go to hospital over this, I think you're crossing a line if you could avoid this.
If you're attacked, put the guy in hospital, sure. But don't go do a streetfight and put someone in hospital, or go there yourself man, that's stupid.
OK so what happens when you put him in hospital? Do you think it ends there? I don't think so. It might escalate, depending on what happens to him. If you think you'll get respect from them and be recognized as a guy not to be messed with, it might backfire. Whereas you are attacked and you kick some ass, that gives you recognition.
The fine little nuances are important. You might be criminally charged, plus you might hurt this guy permanently in a way you'd all regret. Or you might get permanently injured. Because if this not a regular attack, it's a legit fight, and in legit fight truly everything goes. It won't be duking it out fair and square. Odds are it will get nasty. Odds are everyone will make out fine but still, the odds are not good enough I reckon.
If the guy only challenged you drunk and maybe talks some crap now, hey just let it go it's nowhere near worth the risk. I hope you take my advice to stay out of this. It's completely different if he attacks you though.
But if you go to legit fight, you will be responsible for the damage you do. Then it is consicous choice. Think about it, are you sure you want to do that?
And the guy is bigger than you, and you don't have much experience? Man, it's like out of a bad movie already. Stay away.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
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UR,
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No, no, no. You don't want kicks, and definitely no high (above the waist) kicks. A drunk can eat a few of your kicks without flinching, but if he grabs your foot or leg you are in big big trouble. |
Naturally, yeah. I don't advocate any kicks above the thigh area - Thai kicks by definition are thigh kicks, and they aim to reduce a person's mobility, once this is done, kicks to the ribs and liver can be launched.
But yes, I agree with your general point - I only mention kicks because leg kicks can be very, very powerful if done correctly.
Space,
quote:
I was in wrestling for about 3 months in high school. I only learned the most basic takedowns and how to build up to get out from under people. I also learned a few basic lessons:
1. Unless Im Uber-Spectacular at wrestling or Uber-Strong grappling is a bad idea.
2. Getting a person on the ground is easy, keeping them there isnt. (for me at least) and just because they are on the ground it doesnt make them harmless.
3. You **** up once, just once, and the other person has the opportunity to get the upper hand.
4. if you're feeling tired or you're in pain you're still awake, keep giving it your all. |
That's why SUBMISSION grappling is so important. I feel very confident that I can lock up and submit someone significantly bigger than myself (I'm only 5'11", 160 lbs) because of my experience in submission grappling.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
Judo is horrible, at least in terms of self defense. Wrestling is a little better, but the problem with it is that all you really have are holds and takedowns - great for tying a guy up, but not so great for ending fights, unless you can take him down and punch him until he stops.
Ramo is right about jiujitsu - Brazilian Jiujitsu is without a doubt the best grappling style around. Just remember not to go into a fight with nothing but Jiujitsu - learn some strikes, even just some simple boxing moves, that will allow you to cause damage before going to the ground with someone who may be 50 pounds heavier.
The best thing to do is to learn some simple Thai kicks and boxing combos, that you can pick up on your own from books, and practice those over and over. It won't be flashy, and it won't make you the biggest baddest in your town, but you should also be able to hold your own to such an extent that you won't be a major target. |
I wrestled in HS, did judo in college and I'd say you have it backwards. I found judo to be much more effective in fights than wrestling, especially the throws vs the wrestling takedowns. Perhaps in part it is because in the U.S. most people are going to have had some wrestling and / or boxing experience. As wrestlers they are going to recognize your takedown move and counter it. As boxers / punchers they are going to make themselves wide open for throws. With wrestling you won't have the arsenal needed to finish the fight on the ground, though if your oppenent is completely clueless you can probably pound him if you are confident that you can get him on his back.
I don't think that the smaller person is at any advantage on his feet compared to on the ground if he is smaller in reach / frame. I was always supremely confident of my groundfighting, and to me (5"6" with short arms and legs) the danger zone was always at the opening of the fight where my opponent could hit me with his longer reach.
My strategy was to make him overconfident by not adopting a striking stance but (very much in the vein of aikido) standing with my hands near my sides and ready to move quickly in any direction. That includes down / back if the guy tries to shoot for a takedown, back if he tries a front kick and otherwise left, right or forward to avoid a blow and catch his arm for a throw. All of the worries about being lighter are then alleviated, as he is now in motion and I am only going to use that momentum to aid my counterstrike. I found hip throws to be the most likely counter, just step inside of the punch and he is already leaning on you. Keep turning and he is falling to the floor. As the shockwave from the bounce loostens him up throw a naked strangle on him and finish him before anyone knows what happened. Strangles are great submissions because they don't require the active submission of your opponent. His brain simply shuts down and he comes to a few seconds later calm as a sleeping kitten.
This is not a panacea of course. I am / was abnormally quick and agile, which I used to make up for my small stature and medium build. I never fought a guy who studied MMA, though I did whip a whole lot of guys who had experience in karate, boxing or wrestling. I used a lot of psychology to prep the fight as well. If the guy stepped over the line and I thought a fight was at this point inevitable I'd purposefully piss him off while offering him a dream target for his wild haymaker.
I would also note the surrounding terrain and use it to my advantage. Furniture, stairs, windows etc. can all be very useful when you redirect someone's energy. When you are good you have to take some responsibility for it. I came close to throwing someone over a railing and down one floor onto concrete because they tried to stick a lit cigarette in my face. One of my friends called out to me just in time. I read that cigarette as an attack with a weapon, which in my book means anything goes. That was the sort of mental image that came from being on the military, and I had to revise it for civilian life and the poor decision (but not deadly threat) making of a belligerent drunk.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:37
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"95% of all fights happen when somebody is drunk"
While 98.7% of all stats happen when somebody is sober.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
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quote:
With wrestling you won't have the arsenal needed to finish the fight on the ground |
Yeah, but in my experience, neither do most Judo fighters, as it is not a true submission style. In order to quickly finish a fight on the ground, a wrestler and a Judo fighter would probably need to do it with strikes - neither would likely have enough experience with submission to quickly submit their opponent.
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shawnmmcc
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I agree with Sikander reference Judo versus wrestling, and his analysis is good. In fact the basic throws can be learned without an instructor, though you are more likely to hurt each other because of not learning to fall properly first (VERY IMPORTANT when practicing). One other advantage to Judo. If you throw them, you can sometimes remove yourself. Also throwing them INTO something, like furniture, can be as effective as any chokehold. They hurt way too much afterwards to chase after you (make sure aforementioned furniture is unoccupied or you may have fight number two on your hands).
These are only if you get stuck in the fight. I agree on avoiding the fight, because given the "street fight/punk" equation, you can never be sure on how it will escalate, and on whose side law enforcement will come down. However, turning yourself into easy prey is even worse, so don't humiliate yourself backing down. Pekka's advice on attitude says it better than I could.
Can't you avoid bars/pubs? I know the attraction, but trust me, you can find women at other locations. Also you might try looking into some locally recognized "good" activities, i.e. church, outdoors, brewing (supply cheap booze and throw a party!), etc. The "use your head" strategy espoused by other posters.
That, or start LOT's of correspondence courses until you can leave. Look at it as a minimum security prison  . I spent five years exiled to Bluefield, WV with my employer. It was both redneck and hillbilly country, and bars there could be vicious. I avoided them. I ended up visiting local colleges and driving extensively (option available as not in Alaska). I also got out as soon as I could.
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Space05us
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quote:
Can't you avoid bars/pubs? I know the attraction, but trust me, you can find women at other locations. Also you might try looking into some locally recognized "good" activities, i.e. church, outdoors, brewing (supply cheap booze and throw a party!), etc. The "use your head" strategy espoused by other posters. |
I can avoid bars without a problem, there arent any up here. Barrow is a small town, its virtualy impossible to avoid anybody, you bump into everyone at some point in the week. Almost everyone is drunk on the weekends, and they're always out and about. And Im not going to run and hide, I live here, Barrow is my home. (if I felt really threatened I would have called the cops already)
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Pax
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My suggestion is to listen to all the advice you've been given on how to fight smart and dirty.
Next set the example. Go out. Don't drink. Pick your victim. Make sure he gets drunk enough. Instigate the fight then thoroughly whip his ass. Even if you don't whip his ass. Show a willingness to fight and people will be less likely to want to try you. Unless you live in one of those hick towns where everyone loves to fight for fights sake. If that's the case then pick a fight and make sure you lose so thoroughly that no one sees you as a challenge.
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