03-07-2004 22:33									#1
	Le Tour de Lance Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

the first stage of the tour de lance started today, and a swiss guy won the first event. armstrong got second, which is surprising cuz he usually doesnt go all out on flat stages. tomorrow is a more hilly one. you can watch it on the outdoor life channel early in the morning (6 am PST)

	03-07-2004 22:41									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

He won the opening stage twice before.

Tomorrow, nothing going to happen as far as winning the thing is concerned.


Oh, La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La ......

	05-07-2004 02:13									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

wow, nothing happened but it was an exiting race. i feel bad for jokob piil and that other guy who got caught in the 3/4 of a mile
they lead for so long they deserved it. what they were doing was very ver hard.

	05-07-2004 03:02									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Mark Wauters was the other one... But well, that's nothing new, it's all calculated by the teams going for the sprint (and the ones in front know that all too well). In the Tour there's this golden rule for that, the peloton takes back 1 minute per 10 kilometers.

	05-07-2004 03:32									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

everyone's saying that lance is looking weak this year, and that beloki, hamilton, heras, and ulrich are much stronger.

	05-07-2004 04:15									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, Beloki will obviously win.

I haven't really seen enough of any of them to be able to say anything, to be honest. In the past few years we've heard plenty of voices saying that this time Ullrich was really gonna beat him. But most of that was just wishful thinking, I guess.

The only things I know are that Vinokourov is out , Ullrich won the Tour of Switzerland, and Armstrong didn't win the Dauphiné Libéré. And there's of course the problem that no-one should ever be able to win a 6th Tour.

After the team time trial we'll be able to say a bit more, but the Tour will only get off the ground in the 12th stage.

But I don't really see the point in speculating who's gonna win. I'm just going to enjoy the show and see what happens. I could say that I'd like to see someone else win for a change, but if the race is as exciting as last year I really can't complain.

	05-07-2004 04:53									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The ideal result would be for Lance to win this one and next year's. Then, Tyler Hamilton would begin his streak of 8 wins in 2006.

	05-07-2004 04:57									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

lance is retiring affter this year i think

	05-07-2004 04:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think he's too competitive for that. He'll ride until he doesn't think he can win anymore.

	05-07-2004 05:14									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Go Lance, Go!

	05-07-2004 05:15									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

and they made the course harder and changed the rules so that its harder for lance to win.

	05-07-2004 08:21									#12
	Its the team Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Last year, Lance was slightly worse than Ulrich. It was the Postal team that won the Tour. This year, I think Telekom is stronger than Postal.

Still thinking about old times - TMobile looks stronger

Last edited by pchang on 06-07-2004 at 06:11

	05-07-2004 08:22									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What rule was changed?

	05-07-2004 10:32									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Probably the steroids rule.

ACK!

	05-07-2004 12:25									#15
	Tired of ads?

with how the team finishes and stuff.. i forget exactly - but they also changed the Alpe d'Huez stage. it used to be a climb up that hill after 180 km of flats. now they cut it into two stages, and made the uphill a time trial.

	05-07-2004 12:26									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

and if anyone should have a problem with steroid rules changing, it should be jan ulrich, who was caught and banned for a year, yet no one ever says that. thye arer all convinved that armstrong cheats, but he has never been caught once in 6 years.

	05-07-2004 20:56									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Another rule change was the 2 minutes 30 seconds team time trial time loss cap.

quote: everyone's saying that lance is looking weak this year, and that beloki, hamilton, heras, and ulrich are much stronger.

Why? Because he didn't win the prelim?

	06-07-2004 00:06									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

yep. and that was the rule i was talking about the 2.30 tteam time trial - how exactly does it work

also, armstrong finished in the peloton again today, along with all his rivals. now hes fourth overall. hopefully, jan ulrich and tyler hamilton and beloki all fall in the next state which has cobblestone streets and armstrong can win easy (you'll lose at least 2 minutes getting your tire repaired if its punctured.)

	06-07-2004 00:30									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ahem, Lawrence, in case you missed it, Beloki isn't even taking part this year.

And, um, Armstrong isn't gonna do **** until the mountains/time trials. Him being fourth doesn't mean anything whatsoever (yet). Not to mention fixing a tire takes only a handful of seconds, since they just stick in a new one. And even if they'd lose minutes, you can be sure their teams will get them back in the peloton before the race is over.

	06-07-2004 00:49									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

really? i was reading everywhere that he was in the race. thats good.

and yeah, he wont do anything, but even a 30 second lead on his opponents going into the mountain stages will be good.

but you do have to drop outta the peloton, stop the bike, get off it, take off the tire, put the new one back on, start up again, and catch up. if the peloton is going fast enough, and if some of the team is out of position, it could be huge.

	06-07-2004 01:41									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia really? i was reading everywhere that he was in the race. thats good.

You must be reading the wrong things, unless you're mixing him up with Santiago Botero:
http://www.tdfblog.com/2004/06/beloki_out_of_t.html

quote: and yeah, he wont do anything, but even a 30 second lead on his opponents going into the mountain stages will be good.

Well, theoretically speaking, every second is good, but I don't think that will make a whole lot of difference. Certainly this year with the time trial on Alpe d'Huez.
And the team time trial may already give him such a 30 second lead.

quote: but you do have to drop outta the peloton, stop the bike, get off it, take off the tire, put the new one back on, start up again, and catch up. if the peloton is going fast enough, and if some of the team is out of position, it could be huge.

I really can't see that making much of a difference, unless it's very windy. And that can be bad enough even without a flat tire if you end up in the wrong, um, what do you call it, wave? Or if it's near the end of the stage and the peloton is racing to the finish at full speed, but then there isn't much time to be lost anyway.

Oh and by the way, about the team time trial rules. I didn't actually know about that until you mentioned it, but you can find the official rules at http://www.letour.com

The rule basically put a cap on how much time the teams can lose. The team that finishes second can lose at most 20 seconds, the team that finishes last can lose at most 3 minutes... Stupid rule indeed.

	06-07-2004 19:56									#22
	Whoops Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I must retract my earlier statements. The Postal team (soon to be sponsored by someone else) appears just as strong as ever. Clearly, the team time trial rules were meant to make the race more of an individual thing as opposed to a team thing. If the rule had been in place last year, Armstrong might not have won, but most likely he still would have. (Ulrich pushed too hard in the rain and crashed. Would he have pushed that hard had he been 10 seconds closer? Who knows?)

	06-07-2004 20:10									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The ideal result would be for Lance to win this one and next year's. Then, Tyler Hamilton would begin his streak of 8 wins in 2006.

Isn't Hamilton 33? 8 wins, starting when he's 35, would be quite an achievement

	06-07-2004 20:18									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Has anyone ever won the T d F who was not the best hillclimber? Lamond maybe?

	06-07-2004 20:33									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

What dod you mean by the best hill climber? There is a special jersey (red polka dot) for the best climber and the winner of the tour rarely wins this.

	06-07-2004 20:41									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The red polka dot is the best climber on paper. The reason Armstrong and the others are contenders for the Yellow jersey are because they are de facto the best hill climbers. Thats why the T d F doesnt really start till they get to the mountains. It was the same way with Indurain.

IIRC Lamond was OK in the mountains but won on the flats. That was certainly true on his last victory.

	06-07-2004 20:56									#27
	Tired of ads?

Well then, you've answered your own question then.

Who is Axel Merckx? Is he the son or something of the famous Eddy?

Iban Mayo had a disaster. After Dauphin Libere, I thought he had a good chance to challenge Armstrong in this race, but 4+ minutes at this point will be very hard to make up.

	06-07-2004 21:33									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by pchang What dod you mean by the best hill climber? There is a special jersey (red polka dot) for the best climber and the winner of the tour rarely wins this.

It's for mountain sprints, not finished stages or time in the mountains.

You simply can't make up enough time on flat stages to compensate for being unable to dominate in the mountain stages.

	06-07-2004 21:45									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH The red polka dot is the best climber on paper. The reason Armstrong and the others are contenders for the Yellow jersey are because they are de facto the best hill climbers. Thats why the T d F doesnt really start till they get to the mountains. It was the same way with Indurain. IIRC Lamond was OK in the mountains but won on the flats. That was certainly true on his last victory.

He excelled on the flats, but won only by staying close enough in the mountains to put his max effort into the team time trials and flat stages - it's more of an energy management issue than his lack of ability to climb with the best of the contenders.

	06-07-2004 22:22									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH The red polka dot is the best climber on paper. The reason Armstrong and the others are contenders for the Yellow jersey are because they are de facto the best hill climbers. Thats why the T d F doesnt really start till they get to the mountains. It was the same way with Indurain. IIRC Lamond was OK in the mountains but won on the flats. That was certainly true on his last victory.

That's not quite true. Indurain hammered everyone in the time trials and got along on the mountains. But he left the hard work there to the real mountain goats. Ullrich and Riis are kind of like him in that respect. Pantani was a real hill climber. Armstrong is the odd one here, he can do both.

You can't win a Tour in the flat stages, only lose it (as has been demonstrated today with Mayo)... I guess I'm going to have to take back what I said earlier, though it wasn't a flat tire that did it.

quote: Originally posted by pchang Who is Axel Merckx? Is he the son or something of the famous Eddy?

Yep.

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's for mountain sprints, not finished stages or time in the mountains.

It's for Richard Virenque.