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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I really doubt they will ever get away from the culture of cover up. It's a natural bureaucratic or institutional reaction to scandal, be it in a church or anywhere else.
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The 'send them to Samoa' response:
"The move comes after Archbishop Mataeliga demanded an explanation yesterday from the missionary Salesian Order, which moved Klep to Samoa after he was convicted of molesting a boy in Victoria. "
http://www.news.com.au/common/story...255E401,00.html
'Abuser 'not moved to avoid police'
Former Australian Salesian Provincial Fr John Murphy yesterday denied a priest convicted of child abuse had been moved to Samoa to escape Victoria Police who were pursuing him on further child abuse charges.
The Age today reports that Fr Murphy, who now heads the Order in Samoa, said he had made the decision to send the priest, Frank Klep, to Samoa only when he thought Victorian police were no longer interested in him.
"It was not an attempt to hide him," said Fr Murphy who headed the Salesians in Australia and the Pacific from 1994 to 1998.
He also accepted responsibility for signing, in good faith, a declaration that Klep was of good character and had not been convicted of any criminal charges, even though this was not the case. This enabled Klep to get a visa to live in Samoa.'
http://www.cathnews.com/news/407/3.php
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You sure about this?
Sacrament of ordination cannot be undone. You're a priest for life. |
So what happens to the ones who get married? I'm pretty sure that if you violate your vows you get kicked out.
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You sure about this?
Sacrament of ordination cannot be undone. You're a priest for life. |
priesthood is for life but priests are frequently "defrocked" in the sense of removed from ministry or retired.
The main causes for this include illness or incapacitation but disciplinary reasons or scandal are other grounds.
Priests who left the ministry to get married would form a large group.
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 09-07-2004 at 05:07
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shawnmmcc
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Ming, excellent historical perspective. As one addition, there were Catholic rites that permitted marraige. I knew a woman whose parents, who were from Poland, and who talked about a Polish rite where priests were permitted to marry (back when I wanted to become a Jesuit). However, as the Catholic Church has centralized and become more Roman Catholic, that kind of diversity has been drastically curtailed.
DanS and BK have done a very good analysis of the scriptural and theological basis that is current today and led to the serial reassignment of pedophile priests. If they confessed and said they were sorry, then they were reassigned and given a fresh start. When you look at some of these cases, it worked. They only have one complaint. When it was a serial abuser it was a new hunting ground.
NPR had a fascinating interview when all this started, with an insurance agent who specializes in selling liablity insurance to religious groups. His statement was that Protestant ministers were just as big a risk as Catholic Priests. However, the congregation routinely draws together in support of the minister, and labels the girls involved Jezebels. Lawyers understand that an abused boy (as in homosexual abuse) results in larger damage claims. As always, follow the money.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:35
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quote:
Pope Kenobi may not be infallible:
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Considering that I don't accept papal infalliability, that would be odd if I accepted such a burden here. 
Thanks for the article molly, but be aware that this would have to be a special process, and causes problems elsewhere for Catholics.
quote:
To me it's not simply the child sexual abuse that is the problem, even though I find it hard it understand anyone taking advantage of a position of such trust and authority, but it is the concerted effort by a part of the Catholic Church's hierarchy to let paedophile priests escape justice by knowingly moving them away from parishes where they have routinely abused children to other parishes where they can carry on the serial molestation of young people.
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What would you do with them? Kick them out? Again, we get back to the sacrament validly conferred cannot be removed. They can take the priest and put him away from children, but he's still a priest for life.
quote:
The church also failed the dead and traumatized of Africa by shielding people wanted in connection with crimes against humanity:
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quote:
"Court officials say the Catholic Church, which until now had been shielding priests and nuns accused of wrongdoing in Rwanda, has begun to cooperate with the tribunal. "
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So would they be arrested for their conduct? How would they serve their sentence?
Part of the problem is that the church fears that to acknowledge such a tribunal, establishes the authority of the tribunal over that of the church.
It's not entirely clear that this should be so, especially considering that the nuns and priests are accused of wrongdoing, and have not been proved to do have committed the acts.
Sure, if you can show that the priests and nuns actually killed people, and participated in the massacre, that would be one thing, but they still have a responsibility to their parish and their parishioners regardless of what is going on.
If they are accused of collaborating with those who committed genocide, that is a much stickier wicket.
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08-07-2004 06:03
This is the most important thing to remember.
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