04-07-2004 02:17									#1
	Why were there so many sexual abuse problems in the RCC? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Not defaming them..... trying to think of why that was the case. I refuse to think that the proffesion simply attracred pedophiles..... what could be the cause?

One random musing.... maybe sexual repression(wanting women and knowing you cant have them) causes strange psychological effects in some people?

	04-07-2004 02:20									#2
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That's one reason

Another reason is poor enforcement against the priests when they mess up.

The problem still hasn't been fully addressed.

One of my friends is getting married and was told she couldn't wear a sleevless dress because it would make the priest uncomfortable.

	04-07-2004 02:22									#3
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quote: (wanting women and knowing you cant have them)

I went to a boys school. I agree.

	04-07-2004 02:22									#4
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Aren't the African RC priests allowed to marry?

	04-07-2004 02:42									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy I went to a boys school. I agree.

I think thats a different case... in your case they were just not available, in a priests case they are forbidden, available or not.

	04-07-2004 02:52									#6
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In my case they were available in the sixth form but we had to wear coloured ribbons on our blazers to show our age . Outside of school there were numerous house parties which compensated in a depressingly alcoholic manner...

	04-07-2004 03:01									#7
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quote: Not defaming them..... trying to think of why that was the case. I refuse to think that the proffesion simply attracred pedophiles..... what could be the cause? One random musing.... maybe sexual repression(wanting women and knowing you cant have them) causes strange psychological effects in some people?

Well, if you want women, then you shouldn't be a priest. Celibacy is not for everyone, and those who burn for women ought to be honest enough with themselves to turn down the occupation.

Now, as for any 'epidemic' of pedophilia, there is no difference between the number of priests found guilty, and the general population, so celibacy in itself, cannot cause the problem.

Secondly, you are right that part of the problem has to do with the sacrament of ordination. A priest cannot be defrocked within the RCC, so even if he is found guilty, all they can do is move him somewhere away from children. This is why it is so important for any priests to admit that they burn for women, and to refrain from becoming a priest if they find this to be the case.

quote: Aren't the African RC priests allowed to marry?

No. Same rules worldwide for the Roman Catholics.

	04-07-2004 03:53									#8
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celibacy isn't for everyone?

I don't think it's for anyone. It's not phsyically and mentally healthy.

	04-07-2004 04:01									#9
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I never understood the grounds of forcing priests to be celibate.

	04-07-2004 04:04									#10
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It makes no sense what so ever for priests to have to be celibate... They should be allowed to get married... and maybe the could understand some of the problems that the married couples they counsal go through.

	04-07-2004 04:16									#11
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There have been a lot of scandals in the last 20 or 30 years in the US church because the church didn't start cleaning up the mess until about 10 years ago. Overall, the bishops got bum advice from their attorneys (you could fight and stonewall these things in court) and their psychiatric experts (pedophilia is a curable disease in most cases). The bishops didn't have enough pastoral wisdom to see the extent of the damage that following those courses of action would cause.

One thing that is important to keep in mind is that priests and bishops are in the forgiveness business, not the punishment business. Their first instinct will always be to try to rehabilitate the person who is sinning, not trying to throw them in the slammer.

	04-07-2004 04:59									#12
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If the Vatican wants to get rid of the abuse it has to stop the celibacy rule. You can't repress human nature, no matter what religious loonies would like to think.

	04-07-2004 05:12									#13
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1. The amount of pedophiles in the RCC is less than half the amount in the general population, thus there is not necessarily an attraction to this particular profession.

2. The main (practical) arguement for not marrying is that priests are incredibly busy. If you look at the average schedule for most parish priests, there wouldn't be much time for family. Furthermore, look at many of the kids of protestant preachers. They get very little supervision. One of my friends years ago (before I knew him) always hung out at the house of a friend whose father was a priest because there was absolutely no supervision since the parent was always busy. I forget where the mother was exactly, but the point is, the father wasn't there to really raise the kid.

	04-07-2004 05:19									#14
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the president is extremely busy yet he is allowed to have a wife. Well maybe not this lazy ass president. But Clinton was busy. He only slept like 3 hours a night.

	04-07-2004 05:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident the president is extremely busy yet he is allowed to have a wife. Well maybe not this lazy ass president. But Clinton was busy. He only slept like 3 hours a night.

That's because he was hitting it the other 5.

	04-07-2004 06:51									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident the president is extremely busy yet he is allowed to have a wife. Well maybe not this lazy ass president. But Clinton was busy. He only slept like 3 hours a night.

Usually the president's kids are rather grown though, and they have people aside from their parents to keep watch on them.

	04-07-2004 06:52									#17
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the secret service? yes, very good guardians

	04-07-2004 08:25									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse 2. The main (practical) arguement for not marrying is that priests are incredibly busy. If you look at the average schedule for most parish priests, there wouldn't be much time for family. Furthermore, look at many of the kids of protestant preachers. They get very little supervision. One of my friends years ago (before I knew him) always hung out at the house of a friend whose father was a priest because there was absolutely no supervision since the parent was always busy. I forget where the mother was exactly, but the point is, the father wasn't there to really raise the kid.

How about pastors, preachers, rabbis and etc.? Is there some reason why Catholic priests are busier? In some Protestant sects preachers are often expected to have another job to suppoort his family.
How about doctors?

	04-07-2004 08:26									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident the secret service? yes, very good guardians

HA! I'd like to see Ted try, just try to hit it!

	04-07-2004 08:27									#20
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I thought the original reason for the Roman priests not marrying was because of land ownership.

They really need to let them marry.

	04-07-2004 09:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove How about pastors, preachers, rabbis and etc.? Is there some reason why Catholic priests are busier? In some Protestant sects preachers are often expected to have another job to suppoort his family. How about doctors?

Well us Jews dont see sex as dirty or sinfull, G-Ds first commandment was to go get it on, so dont toss us into that group .

I think the RCC line of reasoning is that sex is a distraction from their duties..... that logic is flawed as it causes other problems but thats the rationale.

	04-07-2004 09:38									#22
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"Well us Jews dont see sex as dirty or sinfull, G-Ds first commandment was to go get it on, so dont toss us into that group "

yep, my favourite part of modern Jewish culture...a jewish friend once explained that before marriage it was basically acceptable for a young man to 'sow his wild oats' as they say.

	04-07-2004 09:50									#23
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Many compared to what? The population at large?

	04-07-2004 10:16									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove How about pastors, preachers, rabbis and etc.? Is there some reason why Catholic priests are busier? In some Protestant sects preachers are often expected to have another job to suppoort his family. How about doctors?

I didn't say Catholics were necessarily busier. In fact, I said that many protestant priests didn't watch their kids enough. And I've heard about the schedules of some priests. Their days are pretty packed. Not that supervising kids all the time is necessarily a good thing. Just that it isn't ideal since they usually don't have much time to themselves already. And furthermore, they need to be called on at any time to help someone in the hospital or some other emergency situation. It'd be much more difficult for them to be tied down by kids. Also, catholic parishes many times have more people being served than protestant ones.

	04-07-2004 11:32									#25
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quote: I don't think it's for anyone. It's not phsyically and mentally healthy.

Why not? Celibacy is healthy. Do you have any evidence that celibacy is unhealthy to people who undertake such a state willingly?

	04-07-2004 12:42									#26
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Do you have any "evidence" that it isn't

Logic tells us that ignoring a "basic" reproduction urge is not a good thing

	04-07-2004 12:45									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove HA! I'd like to see Ted try, just try to hit it!

I don't know, Bush's daughters seem kinda freaky!!!

	04-07-2004 12:59									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Do you have any "evidence" that it isn't

Do you have any evidence I'm not watching you at this very moment?

	04-07-2004 19:05									#29
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The RCC isn't the only Christian church having this problem. It seems quite widespread.

The US bishops Congress found the proportion of paedophile priests was on average the same as the general population i.e. about 1%. They were shocked - they thought it would be less.

It's only in the last 20 years or so that sexuality has been openly discussed or broadly understood. I'm not sure some of these priests saw what they were doing as sexual, which would be regarded as intercourse. Bad, impure, wrong? Yes they knew that. The taboos around sex, the inability to talk about it, also explain the cover ups as much as avoidng scandal.

Arrested sexual development explains some of it - many of these priests were recruited into "junior seminaries" at a very young age and their sexual development was stunted.

Initiation practices could be another part of it. Some were abused by other clergy and may have seen that as some sort of initiation.

Celibacy and the loneliness of priesthood could be another factor. But other societies manage it.

	06-07-2004 06:54									#30
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quote: Logic tells us that ignoring a "basic" reproduction urge is not a good thing

Presumes that such an urge is 'basic'.

I'm not so sure this is the case. I grant that celibacy is not for everyone, which is why people who burn are encouraged to marry.