06-07-2004 16:23									#1
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Here we go.....

ACDG

* Turn 1
Very first Data Angel turn in the ACDG Enigma somehow managed to pop 2 monoliths, nut bonus, unity rover, and a battle ogre.

* Turn 2
The 2nd turn of the ACDG there is evidence that Enigma did exploration before the turn. The pod wasn't in visible range and it's too much of a concidence that he mentions pods and the probe team the very second the turn arrives.

quote: http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...373#post3119373 quote: GO TURN! It's already here. I'm waiting for Makahlua to come online. I should warn you that: if a probe pops a pod and has some movement points remaining, it can run away from worms. If it pops the pod with its last movement point, it will be eaten by worms. Evidence of exploring ahead. He's obviously opened the turn noticed that the probe can move and pop a pod and made that comment to ensure Makahlua doesn't do so. Makahlua then finds a pod, when she does the turn. http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...018#post3120018

The 3rd turn there were no signs of cheating.

Bear Baiting

* Turn 1,
starting money is 163 and he's completed a former in every city. Money per turn is 28.

From this we can deduce that.
163-28 = 135ECs left from last turn.

25ECs to rush each former in 9 cities = 225

Total money = 225+135 = 360

So he gained 350 ECs last turn.

He had 9 infantry, 4 rovers used up 2 moves each. 1 rover used up 1 move.
9+4*2+1 = 18 mindworms killed.

Another note that none of his units are at less than 20% damaged. Average damage is 10%.

Obviously looking closer at the turn it can be seen that he's rustled up one mindworm in fungus then rustled up an mindworm in adjacent fungus. Hence he alternated between killing each mindworm off one after another. So it was 17*20ECs +10ECs = 350ECs worth of mindworms.

Another thing to note is that a scout moved using 1/3 move which has a 33% chance (I'll also mention units that fail to move).

* Turn 2 of bear baiting.....

Of the 4 units of his move into fungus all of them succeed without mindworms or anything.

I made an scenerio, out of 10 scout units I'll write down how many manage to move into fungus.
(by the way I put high native life, so alot of worms)
1,2,1,0,3,2,3,1,4

1+2+1+0+3+2+3+1+4 = 20% chance to move into fungus without worms. (about 40% without worms)

Assume 40% chance of all four units moving into fungus is .4^4=2.56%

So only a 2.56% chance of moving into fungus not including the possibility of worms. While there is a 0.16% chance that all units moved into the fungus without worms.

* Turn 3 of bear baiting no cheating detected.

* I forgot to check for former reactivation, but I remembered that most of his formers formed and moved in turn 3???, need to double check.

	06-07-2004 17:45									#2
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HoF
Turn 2102 - no cheating detected.

Turn 2103 - no cheating detected.

Turn 2104 - no cheating detected.
(strategy comments - but he really ought to be rushing those formers, and he forgot to stockpile)

Turn 2105 - no cheating detected - scout failed to move last 1/3 of move.

Turn 2106 - no cheating detected.

Turn 2107 - 2 formers reactivated - one former failed to move last 1/3 of move.

Turn 2108 - 1 former reactivated

Turn 2109 - no cheated detected (still forgetting to stockpile energy)

Turn 2110 - 1 former reactived

Turn 2111 - 1 former reactived

Turn 2112 - no cheating detected

Turn 2113 - 1 former reactived

Turn 2114 - no cheating detected (he remembered to stockpile energy this time)

Turn 2115 -
* He attempted to enter fungus for the very first time in the game and got a mindworm and killed it.
* retro-engineered the probe team chassis and built a rover
* Rover does not have prototype cost (looks like a CMN mistake)??? not sure on that.

Turn 2116 - no cheating detected

Turn 2117 - He had a battle with a mindworm with a hasty attack.... 50% chance of winning, he won ofcourse.
(rushed a colony pod for 37 energy, strange since that's almost all his money....)

Turn 2118 - no cheating detected

Turn 2119 - He disbanded the rover to add minerals to a base, killed two mindworms that he made appear by reloading and moving into fungus. One with a scout patrol the 2nd with the rover that he later disbanded. Used the goods to build 3 formers all in the same turn.

Turn 2120 - 1 former reactived

Turn 2121 - 4 formers reactived

Turn 2122 -
* 2 formers reactived
* Tech cost is missing 5 labs... (possibly due to trading occuring in rest of the game so within specs)
* Another +10ECs from killing mindworms.
So far he hasn't bounced into fungus yet, or entered fungus successfully.

Turn 2123 -
* 2 formers reactived
* Another +10ECs from killing mindworms. Same scout lost another 10% damage on 50% damage, this scout has killed 3 mindworms in a row without resting.
* Rushed a colony pod for 34 ECs, the mindworms is why he can afford bad rushes.

Turn 2124 -
* The worm kill scout starts returning home after killing 3 mindworms.
* 3 formers reactived

Turn 2125 -
* 3 formers reactived
* building merchant exchange????? (ahh crawlers next turn)

Turn 2126 -
* 3-5 formers reactived... why should I bother checking
* 2 bases building merchant exchange.... (appears that the building of a colony pod reduced his tech rate for one turn)

Turn 2127 -
* 2 formers reactived
* switching to merchant exchange in various bases in an attempt to spook other players. (one base will require a retool)

	06-07-2004 18:02									#3
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3 More PBEMs I need to check over.

Life is only a game
Testalossa
Think you know everything

	06-07-2004 22:44									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Kody 3 More PBEMs I need to check over.

Afer a long thought I would like to suggest you shouldn't go there. The mere fact that you can get into a game where you are not the CMN is a very dangerous thing for peope to realize.

	07-07-2004 15:30									#5
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_________________________________________________
(Note: comments are actually over the previous turn)

Turn 2102 - no cheating detected from previous turn

Turn 2103 - really unlikely pod pops
2 pod pops, 1 outside base radius, one inside radius
(1 nut bonus, 1 mineral bonus, 25 ECs, industrial base)

Turn 2104 - no cheating detected from previous turn
1 pod pop outside base radius (monolith)

Turn 2105 - no cheating detected from previous turn

Turn 2106 - no cheating detected from previous turn

Turn 2107 -
3 pod pops outside base radius (unity rover)(nut bonus+unity rover)(rover pops alien artifact in fungus)
alien artifact moves through fungus succeeds

Turn 2108 - really really unlikely pod pops
* U1 rover pops pod in fungus creates U2 rover
* U1 rover moves 5 squares along river, with 1/3 move left leaves river goes into fungus and pops pod in fungus creates U3 rover
* U2 rover somehow knows to leave the river and heads straight for a hidden pod creating nut bonus and U4 rover
* U3 rover kills 2 fungal towers in 1 turn getting 2 morale upgrades and 80 ECs, only 30% damage!!!!!!
* U4 rover pops nearby pod and gets minerals complete for nearby base that had 0 minerals queued, former completed

Turn 2109 -

	07-07-2004 15:30									#6
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So far these are the actions I have taken to date.

* About a month ago I quietly commented to everyone that former reactivation was not allowed in the "Heart of Fire" and hinted that it was highly unusual for such pod pops to occur in the "You think you know everything" game.

The reason for that action was to give Enigma a small nudge hopefully towards not cheating. Nobody would have ever found out, and Enigma wouldn't even have to admit that he was cheating to me.

* Second warning was I started a rather long winded discussion about cheating in the Heart of Fire thread.

I didn't bring Enigma in at all, but the entire discussion was brought up simply for his benefit. I was hoping to show people's reaction and opinions towards cheating; however it backfired on me as people were fairly lenient in their judgement. I suspect that my actions made Enigma believe that cheat would simply get a slap on the wrist. I was hoping that Enigma would understand the logical reasons against cheating, but it was not the case.

I had some private discussion with him about the issue, we talked about cheating and morality. The conversation ended with Enigma saying my morality would mean I would always lose and the fact he was willing to do what was necessary to win would mean he would always come out on top.

* Third warning was when I started the Bear Baiting game, and directly confronted him with the issues of cheating.

I started bear baiting, because of Enigma. I tried to consider what the causes for cheating were and try and offset them. The two causes that I could figure out where that Enigma wanted to be in a position of power, and also that if he did fail to win he would want a good reason for it. I felt that by putting Enigma in a position of power in this PBEM and also giving him the excuse for failure (having 6 other players against him), he wouldn't have as much incentive to cheat. Furthermore, I was expecting him to cheat, but I hoped by confronting him with it and trying to dissuade him directly he might be able to break away.

The cheating occurred and I had a hard time trying to talk to him without being bogged down by him trying to defend himself. I lied to him saying I was only checking the bear baiting turn, because smacksim got attacked by mindworms. It was a half truth, as I was planning on checking the turn anyway. I managed to get him to promise not to do certain types of cheats. One of the cheats I accused him of that I thought he was using he wasn't actually using after I reviewed the save files.

At the time he claimed that he didn't know the terra-former reactivation was a bug. Although I already knew Jamski, Honghu and I had already stated it was a bug in the HoF at the start of the game and also during the second warning terra-former reactivation was one of the bugs that were discussed as a cheat.

When I asked him to stop reloading he said he couldn't promise that, instead I should give him time and I accepted that. At the time I promised that I wouldn't tell everyone that he was cheating and at that time I had every intention of keeping that promise. However, neither of us managed to keep our promises.

I promised that I wouldn't tell everyone because it would be forcing him to make the decision I wanted if I threatened him with it. He would need to make the decision himself without threats hanging over his head or it would be pointless.

* Final warning was the one posted in this thread

When I found out Enigma had broken the promises he made, I was upset, but I think somehow I believed he promised more than he actually had. Also he had used reloading in the very first turn of the ACDG. The difference between the ACDG and other PBEMs is that I believe most of the players in his PBEMs knew Enigma was cheating so it was more their choice on whether they wanted to take action. Whereas in the ACDG more people were involved, many of which are not intimately aware of the game specifics.

I quietly told Drogue of the infringement. Honghu also could quite clearly see something was wrong as well and sent a series of PMs about cheating that alerted Enigma. Enigma quickly deleted the incriminating screenshots and none of the mods managed to get the game file with the cheats showing. Due to lack of completely solid evidence it was swept under the carpet. The restart, which was supposably to give Morgans their +10ECs was also used as an excuse to force the Data Angels to replay their turn.

That when I noticed that he had cheated again reactivating terraformers. I decided to that it wasn't my duty to tell everyone what I had found out, as his level of cheating was so obvious to me I believed someone else would eventually bring him up on it. Telling myself that everyone knew I removed the html comment tags that were hiding my observations of his cheating in my CMN journal, which was keeping for the ACDG. I think that while I did so I was hoping that either Drogue or Honghu would read those comments and decide to take action, so I did break that promise that I had made to Enigma.

Honghu quickly brought it up, actually much faster than I would have thought as the comments were in my older journal entries and I assumed it would be while before someone reread them if at all. We had a discussion about the issue on what were the consequences of telling everyone. I won't go into the details. She confronted me about it, but I didn't like the consequences.

So the final ultimatum was made in the Bear Baiting thread. I didn't specify what he had to do because he would get no redemption in other people's eyes if someone else led him to that decision. Also if I forced him to make that decision, it would be fairly meaningless. I hoped that he would come clean for real, this final chance wasn't so he could quietly change his ways. He had three previous chances to do that and it was too late for another go. This time I expected him to actually tell all of the truth and nothing, but the truth. Instead he spent his last chance talking to Honghu and convincing her that he could change and should be given another chance.


I also have compiled information on Enigma cheating in Heart of Fire, ACDGIII and Life is only a game (only up to 2108 for LIOAG, but gawd! it took me 1 hour just to track the series of unit creation pod pops for one of the turns).

When I finish LIOAG, I intend to go through Testalossa, which looking at the lastest save looks highly suspicious and I think I will find cheating in there too. I probably won't go Ytyke as I think it will come down to me showing the likelyhood of cheating through statistical analysis for that game.

So far Enigma's cheats that I have detected include, reloads lots of reloads, probe team retro-engineering, former reactivation.

Reload bug used to
* successfully move units without bouncing into fungus or due to being on partial moves.
* getting series of pod pops that are 1 in a billion.
* generating mindworms in fungus to kill them and get ECs.
* ensuring units don't take much damage when attacking mindworms.

The -50 ECs for the AI occurred in "You think you know everything", was probably a honest mistake.

Do people want to have to full turn by turn list of cheats I have detected or believe are likely?

I haven't completed it for LIOAG. I haven't started it for Testalossa and Ytyke. Completed for HoF, bearbaiting and ACDG.

	07-07-2004 16:10									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Enigma quickly deleted the incriminating screenshots and none of the mods managed to get the game file with the cheats showing.

You mean his first angels turn? I have it. I DLed it before I deleted it when we decided to restart. Do you want it?

quote: Originally posted by Kody Do people want to have to full turn by turn list of cheats I have detected or believe are likely?

Not for all of them, but for ACDGIII it would be helpful.

If, as it increasingly seems, Enigma is unable to stop himself cheating, I will ask that he be removed from the game. In the last game, if another faction was cheating, I would have been incredibly angry if they were left in the game. The least I can do, for fairness and for the other teams, is remove Enigma from the game, if he is known (and proven) to be cheating.

I can provide you with the turn tonight. If you can provide me with evidence, I will confront him, show him that we know, and ask that he leave the DG. I can then inform the other factions. If it is just a probability thing, I will ask that he be removed from playing the turn, so that he can still remain a part, but cannot use reloads for the turn. I don't see that I have much other option

	07-07-2004 16:45									#8
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I know *sigh*

The ACDGIII ones are already listed above. There's little evidence so far in the ACDGIII aside from the fact if you did a poll in the strategy forum nobody can honestly say they've managed to get pod pops like that in the first turn. I think the main reason you don't often start on a river and also you generally don't know where the pods are so you can't plan optimial moves to pop 4 of the all at once.

However, the concrete evidence is in his PBEMs, follow discussion here I guess. There's evidence of him using multiple cheats. http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...7&goto=lastpost

	07-07-2004 17:34									#9
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Kody: Releasing information to Chaunk is not ok. This is a CMN matter that we are discussing and deciding what to do. Telling Chaunk, a member of a team, that he is suspected of cheating is not ok. Please refrain from saying things like this before clearing it with me. When we have decided what to do, we will tell people, not before. Moreover, telling one faction while not telling another is unfair.

I need to know exactly what you've said. And here is the problem: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&postid=3128249

	07-07-2004 17:38									#10
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The information that Chaunk is referring to is in the multiplayer forum and has not been directed specifically at Chaunk.

	07-07-2004 17:40									#11
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Kody: That post you just linked me to includes this:

quote: Also he had used reloading in the very first turn of the ACDG. The difference between the ACDG and other PBEMs is that I believe most of the players in his PBEMs knew Enigma was cheating so it was more their choice on whether they wanted to take action. Whereas in the ACDG more people were involved, many of which are not intimately aware of the game specifics. I quietly told Drogue of the infringement. Honghu also could quite clearly see something was wrong as well and sent a series of PMs about cheating that alerted Enigma. Enigma quickly deleted the incriminating screenshots and none of the mods managed to get the game file with the cheats showing. Due to lack of completely solid evidence it was swept under the carpet. The restart, which was supposably to give Morgans their +10ECs was also used as an excuse to force the Data Angels to replay their turn. That when I noticed that he had cheated again reactivating terraformers. I decided to that it wasn't my duty to tell everyone what I had found out, as his level of cheating was so obvious to me I believed someone else would eventually bring him up on it. Telling myself that everyone knew I removed the html comment tags that were hiding my observations of his cheating in my CMN journal, which was keeping for the ACDG. I think that while I did so I was hoping that either Drogue or Honghu would read those comments and decide to take action, so I did break that promise that I had made to Enigma.

Please remove it now. You are not allowed to post things from one private forum on a public forum. The Angels restart was private, and will remain so. I have no idea why you have posted private CMN things on a public forum, I understand why the rest is needed, but ACDG things from private forums will not be posted in a public forum.

	07-07-2004 17:44									#12
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Okay

	07-07-2004 17:48									#13
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As for Chaunks thread, I have asked that it remain completely private. We do not need a witch-hunt, nor to alarm Enigma. We need to search for evidence of rule breaking. If we find any, I will ask that he be expelled. If we do not, I will confront him and question him about it, and if there is enough circumstancial evidence, I will take action.

	07-07-2004 17:50									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Okay

Thank you. It seems only Chaunk has seen it, in the DG. Now we can make a proper decision, based on evidence and facts, and not on pressure from any team

	07-07-2004 18:18									#15
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The reason why I Honghu and I were discussing the Enigma issue in this forum was because I knew that if we ever brought him up on it, it would affect the ACDG anyway. Even if we never mentioned ACDG at all, many of the players in the teams would spent hours accusing Enigma later and would lead to later bitter fights.

The decision on what to do about Enigma started falling out of our hands when Honghu first pushed me towards making a decision about Enigma's cheating. She hinted to everyone that there was a coverup and I think that other players believed her even though most didn't say it out loud. Whatever she did it was still my decision on whether to release the information or not.

Previously I said the only two options were to either let his cheating go while telling him he was very naughty, or tell other people which would be the same as getting him kicked from this place. That was why I was so hestiant earlier and kept stating that accusing him would mean is removal from this community.

This isn't about getting brownie points, on the contrary, by being an accuser you always tarnish yourself in some way. In fact I think that's why Honghu probably changed her mind once I started the wheels rolling when she realised where things were heading. I didn't mention the consequences to myself much as I didn't want it to affect the decision.

	07-07-2004 18:42									#16
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I understand, and I support what you've done with regards to the PBEMs wholeheartedly. I have had a PM from Chaunk, stating his reasons, and I accept them. I will look through the turn, and if I believe cheating has occured, I will remove Enigma.

Do you think he has cheated in the ACDGIII? This is where my responsibility lies, and if he has cheated, I do need to remove him. I will confront him either way, because people's confidence is going in him,and will do, because he's been found cheating elsewhere. Thanks you greatly for the help and the heads up on things.

	07-07-2004 18:53									#17
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Attach the save file which he hid. Is the savefile the one with the battle ogre pop in it?

I doubt he will be obvious with cheating in the recent saves as he's been forewarned by the reaction to the first save file.

	07-07-2004 19:05									#18
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I will do when I get home, and yes, IIRC, it's the one with the battle ogre pop.

	07-07-2004 19:25									#19
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I think the main thing is he knew where the 4 nearest pods were, and the likelyhood of replicating a similarly good series of pod pops would be very very low.

From memory as I only glanced at the picture and didn't open the file.
Probe team -> nut bonus+unity rover
Unity Rover -> gets off river and heads in the correct direction of a unseen pod to pop a battle ogre.
Battle ogre -> moves into fungus (chance of bouncing) and pops something
Scout patrol -> moves 2 squares down a river and pops pod using 1/3 move so 66% chance of failing and gets a monolith.

The fact that Enigma edited away the files is also incriminating.

I also recall Enigma refused to reply when Geomodder asked about the lucky pod pops later.