08-07-2004 00:49									#1
	AU 601: sabrewolf's DAR 1 (rome) Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Please do NOT read this thread of you are playing the game and:

1) You are Andydog
OR
2) You are playing as the Greeks
OR
3) You have not yet explored the entire starting land mass.
OR
4) You have not yet entered the Middle Ages.


this is the thread with my DAR for the AU601 game against andydog.

we are the playing the AU mod at monarch level.

i'll add the link to andydog's DAR thread and first screenies soon...


link to my 2nd DAR

Last edited by sabrewolf on 18-08-2004 at 18:16

	08-07-2004 01:21									#2
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first things first: i'm rome, he's greece.

oh great! militaristic is not very useful in this game (don't want to fight all AIs and i can't attack their cities ) and commercial is worth crap in smaller empires (which will be so because we can't expand militaristicly.

	08-07-2004 01:22									#3
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4000bc: built rome on starting location.

can see a luxury just in the beginning of the fog of war. it seems to be silks.

building warrior (in 5 turns)
worker moves to cattle tile
researching pottery at 100% (going for an early granary) in 14 turns iirc.

Last edited by sabrewolf on 08-07-2004 at 03:49

	08-07-2004 01:23									#4
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3950bc: worker starts irrigation.

i'll probably not post any movement reports in the next few turns because... uhm... no units to move around

	08-07-2004 03:42									#5
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some thoughts on strategy:

A) geography
most likely, greece isn't our imediate neighbor, so i don't need to worry too much about early defence. warriors should do.

B) REXing
because of the non-attacking of AI civs, i'm going to make bigger spaces between my cities (not too big that AI cities are placed inbetween) and fill them up with camps later on.

C) research and trade
japan is not around, so wheel is an option. starting with alphabet and WC, the only 2nd tier tech is writing. but even at max research, it would take too many turns.

the AU mod changes some research priorities of the AI. i'm starting an SP game parallel to this one to check the AI tech strategies.

i'll decide on further research as tech trades continue.

	08-07-2004 03:48									#6
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D) my oponent: andydog
from experience in games with him, he quite likes to forge alliances, be it tech-alliance, non-agression-pacts, etc. without other human players around, that gets more difficult (and my roman units could use some elite training being militaristic )

an early rush against isn't an option. not just because of the likely distance, but mainly because he starts off with hoplites from the first turn on! that means i have no effective measure against him until knights or even cavalry come up.

andy is usually the builder type. his city placement is usually quite well chosen and he expands quite well. it's unlikely that he'll surprise attack me... but if he does... my legionaries are waiting

E) governements:
it won't likely be a peaceful game, so monarchy is the only 1st tier option. if i later on switch to communism depends if the game ever gets that far . i actually hope not, because i'm not planning to spend the rest of the year playing this game...

F) pillaging and plundering:
some archers will probably be built after the first granary, just to settlerbop some neighbors. especially if they plan on coming too close to me! if this game is going to the late medieval or longer, i'd like a powerful core with some vassal states.


but then again... let's see what's to come

	08-07-2004 21:38									#7
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3750bc

worker: irrigation complete, start roading.
rome: warrior built, heads west (mountains )
rome: starts on a settler

	08-07-2004 21:50									#8
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3650bc

pottery in 4 turns.

i micromanaged for growth and not production. settler would have been completed the same time rome grows, but i'll give up 2 turns to get rome to grow a little faster. not doing any calculations here though, so maybe i'm wrong...

not sure if i should go for an ultra-early granary or stick with the settler.

Last edited by sabrewolf on 08-07-2004 at 21:59

	08-07-2004 22:34									#9
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3450bc was a good year for rome:

pottery discovered. research temporarily to the cheapest tech (CB) in order not to get that. hoping for writing or a settler/city when popping hut... well, it wasn't either, but none the less bronze working.

	08-07-2004 22:35									#10
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after BW, switched research to writing at full speed

Attachment: au601_4.png
This has been downloaded 275 time(s).

	08-07-2004 22:43									#11
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3400bc

oh great... i always forget that in PBEMs cities can fall into civil disorder... the turn they grow!!! well, rome is size 3 now, but a turn is wasted

luxuries set to 10% for the moment. warrior continues west

	08-07-2004 23:08									#12
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3300bc

settler complete (heading to the fish (which is btw not coastal) and ivory, start another warrior before going for granary.

1st warrior still hasn't met anybody westwards. 2nd one will be going towards north.

	08-07-2004 23:36									#13
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That is some advisor you seem to have.

	08-07-2004 23:59									#14
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found an "eye candy advisor graphics extension pack" some time ago at CFC

	10-07-2004 02:31									#15
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3050bc:

rome: finishes curragh (as i seem to be on the tip of friggin' peninsula (not seafaring ), i thought i'd send a curragh going north.
rome: starts granary
worker: starts chopping forest (faster granary)
curragh: heads north
settler: founds veii (start on warrior)

	10-07-2004 02:44									#16
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dp

2950bc last turn for tonight

Last edited by sabrewolf on 10-07-2004 at 02:56

	11-07-2004 16:16									#17
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2800bc

worker starts chopping 2nd forest. i'll be losing 6 shields, but the granary will be ready in time for the growth.

veii completes warrior (heads northbound), starts worker

i have met the carthagians a few turns ago and now traded my pottery+WC for their masonry+CB+5g

got all 1st level techs except the wheel now
writing in about 15 turns

	11-07-2004 19:11									#18
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2750bc

persian borders!

maybe i should "motivate" them to fight eachother which would hamper their growth. but i'd need a good tech to give them that incentage. persia have one of the best ancient attacking units and carthage have the best countermeasure.

the biggest problem: who to ally with? if i take carthage, i can't settlerbop them without violating treaties, if i take persia, i've may have carthage attacking me instead of persia. neither of which is a very nice idea!

i think i'll wait a bit to see what the future brings...

	13-07-2004 03:34									#19
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2630bc!

celtic borders from my curragh! yay

persians had nothing new, they were behind in techs, so i presume they hadn't contacted the carthagians despite being so near to each other.

rome has just finished the granary (perfect fit with 2 chopped forrests and a nice 6-shield production at size 3.
speaking of size 3: rome is growing next turn and this time i increased luxury slider to 20%... preemptive strike

Last edited by sabrewolf on 13-07-2004 at 04:05

	13-07-2004 03:51									#20
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2590bc

celtic contact, but MF hammurabi has nothing to offer in trade. now the nearest neighbor, carthage, is also by far the best oponent techwise (even with me, 3 ahead of the other 2)

i really have to weaken them before THEY get to be a killer AI. a couple of spearmen pillaging should do the job and maybe i can trigger a very early GA for them


that's all, folks

Last edited by sabrewolf on 14-07-2004 at 01:30

	14-07-2004 00:48									#21
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2430bc

my first battle... against a barbarian warrior. no promotion, but no HP lost.

rome: settler is coming up nicely at 6 shields per turn and will complete when city would grow to 6 (leaving rome at 4 after that).

veii: the irrigated ivory source gives both food and production and currently lets me create a warrior and a worker every 10 turns. but i'll switch to spearmen and workers next, or maybe even fit in some settlers. but i won't go for granaries in other cities yet.

	14-07-2004 01:19									#22
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2350bc:

rome has finished settler, starts a spearman (with micromanagement, finished in 3 turns without hampering growth of rome (just costing 1 trade)

now 4 units are scouting: 1 curragh and 3 warriors.

from andydog's score momentum, he's either got big cities or already a 3rd one placed

	14-07-2004 02:02									#23
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2270bc:

came up to a barb hut (with 3 warriors in) last turn, got attacked twice and promoted to veteran without HP loss. in this turn, i attacked the 3rd guy and killed him (with 2 HP loss), promoted (elite ) and raided his hut (woohoo... finances 25 turns of granary )

	14-07-2004 03:11									#24
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2190bc:

met the greeks... damn, he's up in techs all the way and additionally has iron working

i just finished writing and will now go for the philosophy-monarchy gambit. but here's where i need
YOUR HELP (anyone who's reading this thread ):
should i research philosophy at maximum research (48 turns at current rate, probably around 35 towards the end) or keep it at 10% and save up for other stuff.
i'm not bad at maths, but i don't know the art of foresight and can't really estimate how long it would exactly take at max research (including, REXing, etc). also, will any AI go for philosophy after writing?

	14-07-2004 19:09									#25
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I say start out at 10%, but check every few turns to see if you can get it any faster than 35 (minus the elapsed turns of course!) I'm no AI expert though - even so I quite frequently beat them in the writing-CoL-Phil-Rep race ^^ (at regent and monarch I should say.)

	14-07-2004 19:21									#26
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thanks for the answer... good to know that somebody is reading this

in the stock rules game it's easy to beat the AI to philosophy at the 50 turn pace, but i don't know about the AU mod.

i've decided to make my decision on my human oponent's acquiring of writing. if he should get it any turn soon, i may switch to full power, else i'll risk the 50-turn gambit.
if he hasn't got it in... lets say... about 10 turns, i'll start trading it to AIs...

	14-07-2004 19:24									#27
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by the way, update on yesterday's last turn:

antium founded near silks sources and popped a hut with city borders (like that, bad outcome is less likely). unfortunatly only a map of the region... most of which i already knew ... oh well, better than barbarians

next city will go next to the floodplain wheat as a worker pump (antium doesn't have a single 2-food tile yet (what was i thinking???))

	15-07-2004 15:11									#28
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2030bc:

my curragh has sailed around the celtic peninsula and just seen blue borders, which is either the germanic or the babylonian civ.

none of the AIs i've met has yet got iron working, so andydog hasn't traded that to them yet.

	16-07-2004 00:40									#29
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1990bc:

the blue borders turned out to be germanic borders. i would be able to buy the wheel from them for alphabet+78g, but as i'd like to pick up monarchy with philosophy, i'll prioritize mysticism for trade... which they wouldn't give for all i had.

meanwhile, 2 scouting warriors attacked barbarians. once on the mountain (1 HP loss), once across the river (2 HP loss)... both times promoted to veteran

	16-07-2004 16:27									#30
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1870bc:

mysticism has spread like wildfire, so i've traded my alphabet for the celt's mysticism+10g (all they had). then i traded mysticism for the carthage wheel+30g (all gold they had too).

i reckon mysticism won't help carthage much for expansion so i can risk giving it to them. and i don't want them trading with "northerers" (it seems as if they don't have contact yet)

the carthagians are expanding in my direction, so i'll have to put a stop to that and try to drive them north. and 2 spearmen will soon head there to start pillaging and capturing worker. maybe i'll throw in an archer... in fact, i just switched rome's production to an archer instead of a spearman

i attacked a barbarian camp and got 25g and am hoping for the other barb to attack me for a possible promotion. and in the next 2 turns i've got a chance to pop to villages... hopefully with a settler, hut or tech