17-07-2004 15:44									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

1830bc:

another good year: i popped iron working from a hut (see screenie)! too bad i've got a tech lead anyway, otherwise i'd frely trade this around. andydog researched it first (quite a long time ago): i know this, because he offered it to me when our warriors met. for a long time he hadn't traded it around. last i checked was about 2 turns ago. now the germaniacs have it too

my curragh has spotted egyptian borders (contact next turn)

i built 2 embassies: with persia and carthago this will come in handy if i need either of them to fight each other. carthage it self is building a settler, persepolis is about a tenth way to the pyramids. imho this is a killer for them because building a wonder so early on (only 3 other cities) is'nt that bright.

worker pump city is in place to get found next turn. after that my priorities are to grab the second iron, set a border to carthage, grab some river lands and later productive centres.

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	19-07-2004 04:16									#32
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1750bc

so, now my 2 spearmen and 1 archer are finished and will be heading cathage-wards. when i opened the embassy, i saw their capitalbuilding a settler, so with a bit of luck i can catch that one before he founds a city

a warrior of mine has attacked another barb hut and got promoted to elite... without a scratch! i'm getting to like militaristic

	20-07-2004 14:59									#33
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1650bc

2 spearmen, 1 archer and an elite warrior are now about 5 tiles away from the carthagian border. ready for some serious pillaging and settler bopping.

i intend getting the persians to fight carthage to, so i'll have more space towards east.

spices have been hooked up, so my lux slider is down to 0 for the moment (only 1 extra gold)

	21-07-2004 04:57									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1625bc

oh no... carthagian settler/spearman pair right near my territory. i've got a unit nearby, but as their guys are on the mountain, they are too risky to attack... but it doesn't matter, as they can't found a city up there. blocking the way so they either have to go on another mountain tile or backtrack... that gives me at least 1 extra turn

surprising fact: carthage hasn't met a single civ except mine! despite being born right beside the perians (who btw only know the 2 human players). i meanwhile have met the last civ: babylon. none have a tech to trade, but persia just got writing...

	21-07-2004 14:58									#35
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf good to know that somebody is reading this

Hey!
Not being able to play does not mean that I don't follow your...adventures.

	21-07-2004 16:34									#36
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i guess it's mutual: i read your sid-games-DAR
but... the difference is that i'm playing monarch level, not sid

why can't you play PBEMs?

	21-07-2004 22:54									#37
	1600BC - the end of the 2400 year peace Increase Your PM Length

the world has lived in peace for the last 2400 years. only a few barbarians have kept the leaders of the world from not building more troops!

in the year 1600bc the probably greatest war of all times has started!

it all began with the carthagians provoking the uprising roman empire by sending their settlers too near for caesar's taste. the code of honour of the roman people, NEVER to attack cities which havn't been founded by their own settlers, caesar ordered a bunch of spearmen in the vicinity, to engage and attack the risk to the roman borders:

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	21-07-2004 22:56									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

knowingly taking a big risk of losing a defensive unit in an attack, let the gods help the great spearman to win the battle... but not without cost: the unit was reduced to just a few people and it will take decades until this group of fine men will be ready to take on more carthagian forces

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	21-07-2004 22:57									#39
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but caesar's risk was worth it: the carthagian settlers were captured and will from now on work as slave labour for the rest of their - and their heir's lives!

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	21-07-2004 23:04									#40
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the roman gods were proud of their children and decided to help yet more!

mars, the god of war sent apollo, the messenger to hide a scroll of wisdom in an abandonned village between the roman and the germanic empire.
that very year, the battle-injury-recovered warrior entered that village and delivered the scroll to his master - primus maximus caesar!
roman inventors understood the god's message and started carving saddles from wood and cut leather strips to control and steer the beautiful horses for riding on them!

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	21-07-2004 23:19									#41
	war against greece Suffering from ads?

feeling confident that the gods are on his side, caesar declared war against greece. knowing that the greek hoplites are virtually unbeatable for the next several thousand years, the great emperor still thought a war could make sence... even if it just makes the greek expansion slower!

and as this world was created by the titans and was made for the strong to prevail, caesar decided to bring other nations into the battle against alexander of macedonia.

first, he contacted the backward civilisation of the persians. they had the most cities of all nations worldwide, but were behind in technology. so they were easy to bring in to the war: caesar taught the persians how to melt and form iron to swords!

(historical note: the persians will be famous for the most powerful adoption of this art with their vicious and equaly destructive immortals)

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	21-07-2004 23:24									#42
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knowing that alexander wouldn't leave the rest out of the race, caesar turned to bismarck, the leader of the germanic tribes. they have powerful horsemen which could seriously hurt the roman expansion and being quite near to the roman empire, caesar didn't want to face bismarck on the battlefield.

so he threw in nearly everything he had into this alliance: the art of writing and lots of gold:

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	21-07-2004 23:27									#43
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caesar also wanted to get the egyptian hordes to join in forces, but as he had laid cleopatra several times already, she was pissed off and didn't want to join in the world war against greece, so caesar turned to hammurabi of the babylonians and asked him for assistance.

babylon also had no idea of the art of writing and were happy to help rome in the battle and gave some gold towards in addition:

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	21-07-2004 23:38									#44
	the world at war against greece Tired of ads?

caesar wasn't prepared to pay anything more for the war against greece. had he not attacked carthage the same year, he could have turned everyone against alexander and cut him off any hope of trading for the next couple of centuries.
but with carthage hating rome, he'd have at least one trading partner.

it any case: rome can only win:
- if persia or the germanics buys carthage and/or egypt into fighting the world war against greece, alexander will be completely lost
- if greece (playing his turn right after me) gets egypt in against me, rome will profit from the war happiness boost.

the only disadvantage of the whole war: greece's people are supporting alexander in any decision he does. having 4 civilizations declare war against their people, the hellians have moved together and think less about being unhappy!

here's what the world looked like 1600bc from alexander's point of view with only 3 civs (of which 2 he hasn't met yet) of the world against him:

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	21-07-2004 23:50									#45
	internal affairs Support Apolyton

after all this talk about wars, alliances and tech trades, let's not forget that an empire is mainly built from the core.

rome has been acting as a 7-turn-settler/spearman pump. switching between forests, hills and grassland, micromanaging mainly for food, then commerce, rome has a slow, but steady pace.

the cycle looks as following:
0) start with rome at size 5, granary food only
1) +3 food, +7 shields
2) +3 food, +7 shields
3) +4 food, +6 shields --> spearman completes, rome grows to size 6
4) +3 food, +8 shields
5) +3 food, +8 shields
6) +3 food, +8 shields
7) +3 food, +8 shields --> settler completes, rome "grows" back to size 5

as soon as the hills are mined and the forrest is roaded, i will consider shifting in barracks (40s) at the cost of growth and a spearman. maybe i'll chop down the last forest to help the cause... (2 first forest tiles were used for the early granary)

other cities are a lot slower. veii has no food bonus, antium doesn't even have a single 2-food-tile (what was i thinking???) and cumae has just produced a worker for irrigating the floodplains and then roading the iron for legionaries (going to be used as pillaging monsters as soon as i'm out of despotism)

	22-07-2004 00:02									#46
	technology Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i've been going with very lot philosophy research for the last iirc 18 turns. andydog just got writing this turn. now this matches his typical playing style i've seen in most games so far:
research something first, then writing, .... then philosophy?
i'm not sure if he's going to do it this game because of the AU modifications of philosophy (virtually no trading value, only (slightly) cheaper than monarchy and the same price as construction...

so anyway... i'm going to speed things up a bit in research just not to risk him getting it before me. it costs about 525 beakers and i'm max. 32 turns away from getting it. that means he'd only need 15 beakers per turn average to overtake me. with the war happiness he got, he can reduce luxury down to 0%... and with his currently 3-4 cities (estimated from his point progression) that shouldn't be a problem for him. just a bummer for the approx. 600g i could get from saving up

	22-07-2004 02:55									#47
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1575bc:

ok, here's the tech standings:
me, rome: tech leader (except if andydog should have mathematics or polytheism)
greece: down HBR; up ???
germanics: paired
egypt: down HBR
babylon: down HBR
persia: down mysticism, HBR
celts: down masonry, wheel (+HBR), IW, writing
carthage: iirc: down writing, HBR

	22-07-2004 03:06									#48
	Put an end to popups!

some corrections:
- on my roman 7-turn settler pump: with my mined grasslands, i can now afford using the gold mountain for 1 turn, giving me 1-2 extra commerce for a turn
- on philosophy: i started off at minimum, then once switched higher to see how long it would take but didn't put it right down. so i've accumulated quite some beakers (a lot more than the minimum of ~20)

	22-07-2004 13:10									#49
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1550bc:

egypt has been signed up by bismarck to join the war! that means that greece is tech-blocked for the next ~5 turns and then only better if they can sign up AIs against me. probably he could get persia back to war because they are down 2 techs... so i hope persia soon meets the germans or egyptians and they sign an alliance of their own!

	22-07-2004 17:15									#50
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quote: as soon as the hills are mined and the forrest is roaded, i will consider shifting in barracks (40s) at the cost of growth and a spearman

It's only 20 shields for you - you're militaristic.

-Arrian

	22-07-2004 17:21									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf why can't you play PBEMs?

VERY cahotic schedules... and cannot play at work... evenings are not all free... you know, wife, family, mistresses, friends, other games...

	22-07-2004 20:01									#52
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i just typed a long message and lost all to the temporary apolyton-no-response time


well, i wanted to know what you think i should do with veii, my second city.
- build SoZ: even the weakened AU-mod SoZ gives a good unit every few turns... a unit which can actually callenge NMs (thanks to the retreat ability)
- build GL: well... pile up cash for 50 turns... downside: i could be outbuilt
- slow settler pump (build granary, then bring out settlers and units)
- unit pump

i presume 6 shields should be possible here. more if i have the culture borders expand. so the 400shield-GL would take me a very long time.

is it worth dedicating the 2nd-best city to something like the GL? and what happens, if the AI builds it first? there are several building the oracle already. what are the fall-back wonders the AI will build with the AU mod? Pyramids, GLib? MoM, HG, ToA? how does the AU value the wonders?

	22-07-2004 20:02									#53
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That'll teach you to type your response directly instead of preparing them in a notepad window and then copy-pasting.

	22-07-2004 20:06									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage VERY cahotic schedules... and cannot play at work... evenings are not all free... you know, wife, family, mistresses, friends, other games...

simple: change your job, leave your wife, get your kids to appreciate civ3, only keep the friends that can beat sid level, uninstall other games... and the mistresses... well, keep them


it's a shame that some of you great players can't or won't participate. i'm really looking forward to comparing my DAR with other people's. i'm sure alexman and jshelr have engaged in a everlasting war, crippling the AI completely and are dominating their sides of the world

and theseus has probably created 5 armies so far

	22-07-2004 20:13									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph That'll teach you to type your response directly instead of preparing them in a notepad window and then copy-pasting.

i usually use mozilla, but this time is used internet explorer... big mistake



on-topic: speaking of armies
sir ralph told me that rome has the better starting land to compensate for the more crappy trait and less useful UU.
well, i think i'll go MGL hunting in this game. i've already got 2 elite warriors walking around... if i can get elite ACs or elite legionaries, the chances aren't even so slim!

the problem is the lack of training ground. i can't attack the AI cities, so i'm stuck with taking out settler-NM pairs or counterattacking archers... the monarch level AI isn't famous for sending large stacks of archers, and probably each one will be protected by a NM. so there's not much i can do except hope for a lucky punch!

	22-07-2004 22:19									#56
	Support Apolyton

sabrewolf try to remember to do a copy of your post before your submit or right after. Then if it fails, you can paste it back.

Sometimes I get concerned and quickly paste it into notepad, just in cash the browser get hosed.

	22-07-2004 22:52									#57
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thanks


... but what do you guys think about veii?

	23-07-2004 00:53									#58
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I say build SoZ. But since it's pricier in the AU mod, it's not quite the no-brainer it is w/o the mod (hence the whole point of changing it ). It will slow down your REX a bit and/or reduce the number of normal military units you will build for the time being. But I'd still try it.

-Arrian

	23-07-2004 02:24									#59
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1525bc

thanks

ok, i'm going for the pyramids right now and then i'll decide later. i've got neither literature, nor mathematics... not sure how things will change once these things come up...

edit: had to divert my archer as there was a barbarian horseman dangerously near my carthage-border settler-spearman

Last edited by sabrewolf on 23-07-2004 at 02:31

	23-07-2004 12:52									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

1500bc

ok, i'm gradually beginning to think rome is expansionist! it's the 5th hut i popped and the 4th tech i got! this time mathematics!

jupiter must be the better god than zeus

otoh, my reg archer winning against a vet carthagian spearman won without promotion and only 1 HP left, and brought 2 barbarian warriors into view.

the carthagian city of utica has a NM defending ... not that i'm going to attack utica, but seeing an NM makes me fear that settlers from now on have mercenaries as escorts