23-07-2004 20:32									#31
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Yeah, Morgan's drop in power is weird. Could he have faced and lost to a mindworm assault?

	24-07-2004 05:38									#32
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Hmm - unless the power graphs are compiled at the beginning of the year and are nor dynamic (ie what the Gaians see we see). Morgan would still just have 2 pops when 2116 started and maybe that caused the dip

Or else, if dynamic, as Maniac says, perhaps they lost a scout patrol to a mindworm - that'd do it too

	24-07-2004 18:45									#34
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Weird, I have a different powergraph.

Especially notice the dramatic power increase of the Hive.

Attachment: powerchart2117.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	24-07-2004 22:38									#35
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Maybe the Hive built a laser or sythmetal prototype?

	25-07-2004 11:27									#36
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My guess is that it's pop. I'm surmising that Buster started them off in the Jungle to help offset their early inability to popboom

(And maybe the difference in the graphs is explained by different screen resolutions?)

	25-07-2004 12:01									#37
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It can't be screen resolution, Morgan's bar is shorter compared to the others in the graph where Hive's bar has soared. Something has definitely occured down there.

	25-07-2004 18:27									#38
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No - that can't be it. These are from the same Sparta-2117 turn. Both Maniac and I downloaded it, I open it to extract the info data, and thus produce the barchart. maniac opens it to play the turn, and that's his barchart.

The power values can't be different between us as we're looking at the same turn, same data.

	25-07-2004 18:29									#39
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Which graph do you get if you open the presend turn?

	25-07-2004 18:45									#40
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LOL - problem solved

The chart ostensibly for 2117 is actually 2113

I've tried to correct it, but the edit with a new attachment isn't taking

Apologies for the wasted time on everyone's part

Last edited by Googlie on 25-07-2004 at 18:55

	25-07-2004 18:49									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As I can't seem to be able to get the above, erroneous, chart replaced by the correct one I've deleted it, so the above four or five posts will be unintelligble to future readers

Last edited by Googlie on 25-07-2004 at 18:59

	25-07-2004 18:57									#42
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Here's my 2117 first-opening-the-turn barchart (and it's the same as Maniac's)

Attachment: 2117 barchart.jpg
This has been downloaded 63 time(s).

	25-07-2004 19:05									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie LOL - problem solved The chart ostensibly for 2117 is actually 2113

	25-07-2004 19:17									#44
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And the irony is, I actually noticed that the "Mission Year 2117" was missing when I posted the pic (I'd cut and pasted the year from the whole screenshot) - I just assumed that 'cos it was black-on-black that it just wasn't showing

	26-07-2004 20:16									#45
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Attachment: 2118 covops report.jpg
This has been downloaded 54 time(s).

	27-07-2004 20:59									#46
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Attachment: 2119covertops.jpg
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	27-07-2004 21:10									#47
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Addendum to 2119 information:

We do know (via the pyramid/monument) that we were the first to launch a ship, so the AI - by 2118 - didn't have any in the waters.

Attachment: invincible text.jpg
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	28-07-2004 20:55									#48
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Attachment: 2120 covops.jpg
This has been downloaded 37 time(s).

	28-07-2004 21:04									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Angels population has boomed to 5, so presumption is that they have planted 2 new bases (and they have closed the gap somewhat)

Can we deduce from that they must have a nutrient bonus in the base radius of one of their two original bases? Edit: or a recycling tanks of course. Else I don't see how they could get pop 5 before MY 2122.

quote: [list][*]None of the 3 teams have yet discovered Doc Mobility or Doc Flex

So far for the Gaian claims of having a fleet of gun skimships.
Personally I also doubt they have a Battle Ogre 'Pegasus' or that they'd have lost a colony pod 'Hope' to the worms. I'm not sure, but didn't the Hive in the previous ACDG also falsely claim to have lost a CP at the start of the game?

	28-07-2004 21:13									#50
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quote: I'm not sure, but didn't the Hive in the previous ACDG also falsely claim to have lost a CP at the start of the game?

If so, to them, spin is one thing, blatant misinformation is another. Not so subtle though, but it did score them a victory.

	28-07-2004 22:56									#51
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Some comments (having backtracked thru these first ten or so turns - when I had my flag set to "no contact")

Gaians haven't lost a colony pod. They've tracked us pretty consistently in pop growth. (They reacehed size 4 in 2115, we did it a year earlier)

Angels benefitted greatly from that simultaneous start (size 2 in 2101, size 4 in 2112, - and didn't have the ec's to rush pods - size 5 in 2116 and will be 6 pretty soon

Morgan is about on a par with everyone else - simultaneous first bases (but in 2102), grew to size 4 in 2113 then rushed 2 colony pods and had them planted by 2114 (which makes me wonder if indeed they rushed recycling tanks. I'd have expected their growth to have been faster with the extra nut per base per turn.) These first 2 bases will be about ready to popgrow any time now, so he'll reach size 6 soon as well

	28-07-2004 23:43									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Gaians haven't lost a colony pod. They've tracked us pretty consistently in pop growth. (They reacehed size 4 in 2115, we did it a year earlier)

Hmm - I've changed my mind on this

here's what we know about the Gaians:

• 2101: founded 1st base
  
• 2102-2103: population stalled at 1
  
• 2104: founded 2nd base
  
• 2104-2112: population stalled at 2
  
• 2112: population grew to 3
  
• 2113: Population dropped to 2 (assumption is that a colony pod was rushed/completed)
  
• 2113-2115: population stalled at 2 (consistent with a CP in transit)
  
• 2115: Population grew to 3 (consistent with a) planting their 3rd base, or b) growing their 2nd base to size 2
  
• 2115 - 2119: population stalled at 3 (so if they did plant their 3rd base, pop from base 2 should have advanced to 2 by now) - so consistent with losiing that colony pod between 2115 and now
  
• 2120: population grew to 4 (consistent with base #1 growing a pop from 2112 to now

	29-07-2004 00:45									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac So far for the Gaian claims of having a fleet of gun skimships. Personally I also doubt they have a Battle Ogre 'Pegasus' or that they'd have lost a colony pod 'Hope' to the worms. I'm not sure, but didn't the Hive in the previous ACDG also falsely claim to have lost a CP at the start of the game?

That is very interesting. It looks like they are trying to portray themselves as a small (having lost a colony pod) but still very tough empire, sporting an ogre and a fleet, not worth the trouble conquering. This looks like a deliberate propaganda move, effectively guiding any attackers elsewhere. The attackers in this case being us

This doesn't necessarily mean that they are a weak target of course ... But it indicates it.

I hadn't considered the possibility to ... manipulate the truth through the Phalanx, but if it is considered good sport, maybe we should think about it? What do we want the rest of the world to think about us? That we are weak? That we are strong? That we are taking on the Hive? The University?

	29-07-2004 01:25									#54
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that we already met one of the AI groups!!...or can they check that?

	29-07-2004 01:36									#55
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quote: I hadn't considered the possibility to ... manipulate the truth through the Phalanx, but if it is considered good sport, maybe we should think about it? What do we want the rest of the world to think about us? That we are weak? That we are strong? That we are taking on the Hive? The University?

It's tricky business. A wise man has said, that to make someone swallow a big lie, tag along a small piece of truth. We should let out easily verifiable matters of fact, like our foil which can be verified from the monument when the time comes.

We could also, say, divulge our contact with an AI, but lie about our intentions with them. It's important not to lie all the time to maintain some credibility if caught, and it's important to not state exactly the opposite of what we don't want them to know. It's too easy to figure out.

Now, consider, that we pretend to be strong. That's the obvious things for us to do, and we will be ignored. If we pretend to be weak, they will think that we are trying to hide the fact that we are strong and are trying to gain the element of surprise.

However, both of these maneuvres can be outwitted, but only by guesswork. I'm currently thinking a middle road would be the best option for now, at least until we get to a position where we could truly use leveraging power. Pretending to be weak might be a good option, but like I said, someone might decide to call our bluff and see if we really are as strong as we don't let them think.

	29-07-2004 02:52									#56
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from RP view it is not wise to say we are weak...we can better keep saying we are strong so that they dont know what we are...it can be truth but is can also be RPing

	29-07-2004 02:57									#57
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We don't want to appear to strong, because that will cause everyone to get paranoid of us and gang up on us. We just need to be a little intimidating.

Ideally, we should flex our intimidation only in private talks. Meanwhile, we can act like we are only medium-strong in public. This way, our target faction(s) know (or think they know) that we are really strong, but they see us in public media as portraying ourselves to be rather medium. This makes our target faction(s) think that there isn't a very good chance of getting the other factions to gang up on us in case of an invasion. This leaves our target faction(s) feeling isolated and helpless, and thus they are more likely to do what we want them to do. If we portray ourselves as really strong in public, our target faction(s) will be confident of gaining the other faction's support against us, because everyone will be jealous of us, the perceived leader.

So my suggestion: Portray ourselves as getting by well, but not too strong (like we've been doing so far). Then, in private talks, we can flex our muscles a bit.

	29-07-2004 03:34									#58
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Zeiter The middle road approach. A good point re: private talks, we can isolate things there. The Phalanx won't be our only channel.

quote: From RP view it is not wise to say we are weak...

Very true. It is not the Spartan Way.

	29-07-2004 07:25									#59
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Here's what we know about Morgan:

• 2101: moved their 2 colony pods
  
• 2102: founded 2 bases (so 2 pops)
  
• 2102-2112: had 2 bases and 2 population
  
• 2104: discovered first tech
  
• 2108: changed SE setting to Free Market
  
• 2113: grew population to 4
  
• 2114: population dropped to 2 (assumption is that they rushed/completed 2 colony pods
  
• 2115: population stalled at 2 (so 2 CP's still in transit)
  
• 2116: Population increases to 4 (so we assume 2 new bases founded that turn)
  
• 2116 to date: Population remains at 4

Last edited by Googlie on 29-07-2004 at 07:32

	29-07-2004 07:32									#60
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nd, finally, here's what we know about the Angels:

• 2101: simultaneous founding of 2 bases (so population is 2)
  
• 2102 - 2111 population stagnant at 2
  
• 2112: population grows to 4
  
• 2113-2114; pop remains at 4
  
• 2115: population drops to 3, so we assume a colony pod built
  
• 2116: pop grows to 4, so we assume a 3rd base founded (closelu spaced as per the first 2)
  
• 2117: pop drops to 3, so assumption is another CP is commissioned)
  
• 2118: no change (CP in transit)
  
• 2119: pop grows to 4 again, so 4th base is founded
  
• 2120: population grows to 5