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Where do you stand? (Time out:0 days after 14-07-2004, 21:19)
1 (Anti-US)
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10 (Pro-US)
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Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:29 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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you have a point there....

anyway i think comparing the US with Rome is pretty hilarious in fact

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:33 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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especially because rome never made any place in the world safe for democracy.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:34
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I think the reason is paiktis likes anyone who can put those Jews in their place.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:37 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
especially because rome never made any place in the world safe for democracy.


Impaler[WrG] is offline Impaler[WrG]
King
Cheif Manufacturing Officer of Morgan Industires
May 2002
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  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:43 Visit Impaler[WrG]'s homepage!
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Further more I think (though I cant be shure) the Romans DID kill MILLIONS even considering their population densities. Further more then liked to Crusify whole villages for molesting a single Roman Citizen or sometimes just to make an example!

Any logical analysis of warfare and violence will show that the present is by FAR the most peacefull time in terms of % of populations killed in violence yearly, % of population is armed services and % of GDP alocated towards military spending. When violence dose occure it tend to be very spectacular though, its the Columbine effect. School shootings have been declining for decades, the year that Columbine happened was no worse then most prior years and the downward trend has infact hastened in its wake. Warfare is much the same in the 20th Century. My opinion is that the plentifull resorces of modern industry and especialy agriculture are reducing the incentive for warfare, logicaly then violence is most prevelent in the lest developed areas (Africa) but most of the attention is on the Big "Shock and Aww" stuff done by the super-powers.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:48 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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I agree we shouldn't separate african savages from americans just because they use different weapons.

I think we do though because the US is doing it short of coldheartdedly and calculatingly, hitler like. if it was in the heat of the passion i think it would go down easier, it's that it's so calculative for its own interests.

i also think it's beacuse untill recently it dodn't have penalties for its murders.
butnow it does, (osama etc) plus most of the world is against her so we can afford to have ahearted laughter about it and not be pissed all the time when we think about it.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:55
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Wait, killing your enemies in a sort of patriotic (or tribotic, I dunno) fervor is better than killing them after careful analysis of the utility of such?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 22:57 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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well yes. even in courts if you do a crime in the heat of the passion you get reduced sentence (if the court accepts it)

but i doubt america "has enemies", it simply has interests. that's why it gets people mad.

if it was an enemy it went after for it would be ok

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 16-07-2004 23:00
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So if the Israels got all "passionate" and killed all the Palestinians, that would be better than what they're doing now, in your book?

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
Samara's best friend
Jan 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 16-07-2004 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Cowboys

America is the best country to live in

Yer all just jealous


Actually, Canada is.



Spec.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 00:14
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Jealous? Well we knew that .

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
King
Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 00:57
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The US saved us from nazis and communism and "we" Europeans pay them accusing them of just looking at their own interests while we make deals with the people that are threating their security and way of life (and also ours, but we think that we are smarter than them).

When the US get tired of looking after ungrateful Europe I won´t blame them, despite it will be very bad for us.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 01:20 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Oliver, regarding your Raygun quote, how can you understand something that you haven't read.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 17-07-2004 01:25 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher


I like it too... I'll be there this weekend to see my neice and nephews


Do you have time to get a cup of coffee or lunch?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 01:52
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quote:
Originally posted by OliverFA
The US saved us from nazis and communism and "we" Europeans pay them accusing them of just looking at their own interests while we make deals with the people that are threating their security and way of life (and also ours, but we think that we are smarter than them).


Actually, the Communist bore the biggest burden of saving you from the nazi's. Thought the fact the Spanish government at the time was installed with Massive Fascist help might have helped it avoid those terrible Nazi's.

quote:

When the US get tired of looking after ungrateful Europe I won´t blame them, despite it will be very bad for us.


International politics is not based on being grateful-otherwise the US would be totally indebted to the French forever, but we aren't. So the whole "we saved you in WW2! is a load of bull- specially given the fact the US came only essentially in 1942 after we were attacked by the Japanese, and not before that.

So OliverFA, what do you do to celebrate Europe's savior from Hitler, Uncle Joe Stalin?

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 01:58
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Landscape:10+ We still have lots of natural areas and diversity compared to Europe.

People:7 We are very diverse, although religious fundimentalism and some remaining racism takes points off.

Government: 4 I prefer a parlimentary system over a presidential system.

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
Settler
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 02:07
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
quote:
Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Imagine if George Bush were PM of Canada and Canada was a world power... with the kind of authority the PM has here, we'd be fighting 10 wars right now and the world would look something like a crater. As crazy as GWB may seem at times, be thankful he's president of the United States and not President of the USSR or some other theoretical, highly centralized, superpower.


GWB would have lost a Confidence Vote and been toast.


You can't be so sure of that. And I don't mean necessarily GWB, I mean someone like him with the same intentions and motivations.

Or imagine this, that the US has the same political system as Canada where GWB is PM. Imagine GWB has the sole authority to declare war and to enter into treaties and alliances with foreign countries. Would the world be better off, or worse? I say unequivicolly it would be alot worse.

Again, be grateful the US has the system that it has as long as its a superpower. The US government is GWB's worst enemy right now, not anyone or anything else (assuming he's a warmongerer like everyone says he is).

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
Settler
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 02:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
Government: 4 I prefer a parlimentary system over a presidential system.


Why? I think its great having a separate executive branch of government. Otherwise it would be like GWB being in control of the executive seat AND congress... ie, an unbalanced balance of power.

Flinx is offline Flinx
Prince
Toronto, ON CANADA
Nov 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 02:18 Visit Flinx's homepage!
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Unless you are an ultra-narrow minded fanatic, this poll is imposable to answer honestly. How can you take the political, economic, social, environmental, and cultural attributes of a multifaceted society, people(s) and country like the United States of America and reduce it to a deliberately ignorant, boorish, overly simplified, argument sparking question like “What's your Stance on America?”

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 03:43
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quote:
Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
You can't be so sure of that. And I don't mean necessarily GWB, I mean someone like him with the same intentions and motivations.

Or imagine this, that the US has the same political system as Canada where GWB is PM. Imagine GWB has the sole authority to declare war and to enter into treaties and alliances with foreign countries. Would the world be better off, or worse? I say unequivicolly it would be alot worse.


I don't know the Canadian system, but I would assume the Prime Minister's authority rests on the support of his party. The whole party would have to be for the war, or the treaty or whatnot. Ironically, in the UK it was because the main opposition party was pro-Iraq war that the UK passed the act of Parliament to allow British troops involvement. If they were against the war the motion would have been defeated due to massive backbench revolt.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 03:51
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quote:

I don't know the Canadian system, but I would assume the Prime Minister's authority rests on the support of his party. The whole party would have to be for the war, or the treaty or whatnot.


The backbenchers don't have the spine to stand up to the PM, so the PM dictates the policy.

Perhaps if they were to organise they could have taken down one of the majority governments, but party discipline is extraordinarily strong here in Canada.

Unfortunately, we have adopted the worst of both the American and British systems. An American president in the PM, and in the makeup of the cabinet, on a British parliamentary system lacking the formal checks and balances of the Americans.

But things have changed now, and the voters have finally turfed out the Liberals, giving them another chance to rectify things under a minority government.

So we shall see whether any lasting change comes about.

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 17-07-2004 03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dauphin


I don't know the Canadian system, but I would assume the Prime Minister's authority rests on the support of his party. The whole party would have to be for the war, or the treaty or whatnot. Ironically, in the UK it was because the main opposition party was pro-Iraq war that the UK passed the act of Parliament to allow British troops involvement. If they were against the war the motion would have been defeated due to massive backbench revolt.


More the party rests on the support of the PM. The Canadian system is often referred to as a "benevolent dictatorship", but there is nothing in writing ensuring that it stays benevolent. But this isn't about Canada, I was merely saying that the US is the best system for containing the authority of its executive, which can be good and bad in a number of ways. However when it comes to dealing with people like GWB, the US system is especially good. This is precisely why he has gone to such lenghts to create things like the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security, to circumvent the fact that his actual authority is so limited. In most other countries (Canada included) things like the Patriot Act and the DHS would be redundant because the government(s) already have most of these powers, wether or not they are regularly exercised.

JCG is offline JCG
Prince
between a rock and a hard place
Feb 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 04:53
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America is a double-edged sword. Goes for pretty much most of the subjects already considered (anq quite a few that haven't). That's all.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 04:58 Visit Dis's homepage!
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the more I read poly off-topic, the more I hate america. I still voted 10 though . This prison rape thing in Iraq has me very disturbed. I'm beginning to hate my country.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dauphin
I don't know the Canadian system, but I would assume the Prime Minister's authority rests on the support of his party. The whole party would have to be for the war, or the treaty or whatnot.


Wouldn't, rather, the majority of the party have to be for the war?

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 07:55 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I really don't have anywhere to post this since I used my 2 threads.

Bush slams Castro on Cuban sex industry. But little does he know what goes on in Las Vegas.

http://news.myway.com/top/article/i...47|reuters.html

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-07-2004 09:32 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

There are different tones of capitalism. So far, you are the only rich country (per capita wise) to allow such an immense misery on your territory, and even worse, that finds it perfectly normal - the American dream that everybody is responsible for himself has been twisted into now considering "welfare" as a political swear word


immense misery? Says who?

 
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