15-07-2004 05:46									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Kalius I realise that, but esp(uh)re and (ay)crire are graves and acutes respectively, whereas tr(ay) follows the acute pronounciation but is a grave.

Actually it doesn't. The correct pronounciation of très is the same as espère.

	15-07-2004 06:40									#92
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Hmmm. I suppose it does. Never mind then.

	15-07-2004 14:02									#93
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Les accents sur le e (é, è donnent deux sons différents. Ceci dit, ça dépend de quelle région on est. Je prononce 'et' è alors que c'est censé être é par exemple.
La plupart des langues utilisent des accents. C'est bien plus facile a apprendre. En anglais, savoir comment prononcer 'th' est une vraie galère par exemple: this/thin???
En plus on a des combinaisons de lettres pour les voyelles: Oiseau.
Accents on the e are for two different dounds. This said, it depends which region you come from. I pronounce 'et' (and) the same as 'est' (is) for instance.
Most tongues use accents. It's far easier to learn. In English, knowing how to pronounce 'th' is a real pain for instance: this/thin???
And we have combinations of letters for vowels: Bird is oiseau (wazo).

	15-07-2004 14:36									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Kalius Pourquoi-y a il accents? Anglais a un combinaison de lettres, n'accent pas... C'est très difficile. Et pourquoi est très avec un grave, n'aigu pas? C'est prononça "tray", non?

En fait, l'"accent grave" (è) n'est qu'un nom, un mauvais nom. le "è" est toujours plus aigü que le "é".

En Français, comme dans beaucoup d'autres langues sauf l'Anglais, la prononciation est cohérente avec l'écrit à quelques exceptions près, et il faut connaître quelques règles (le "s" à la fin d'un mot ne se prononce pas, tout comme le "e", et il faut connaître les combinaisons de lettres: oi, au, eau, etc).

Très: "tray". Près: "pray". Parallèle: "parallayl" etc. Espère: "espayre" etc.

Pronunciation in French is cohesive with the written form once you know the rules. "è" is always said "è". At least in the parts of France where they know how to speak

	15-07-2004 14:54									#95
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Vraiment tu prononces très comment tray en anglais? J'ai cru que le "è" est plus pure.

Really, you pronounce très (very) like tray in english. I have believed that the "è" es much more pure

edit: J'ai oublié la traducion / I have forgotten the translation. (Is this really necessary all the time?, I feel like a child)

	15-07-2004 14:57									#96
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J'ai appris très = "tray", près = pray, mais "j'ai" est "zhai"

Pourqoui ne "trai" pas?

I have learned "very" = "tray", "near" = "pray", but "I have" is "zhai"

Why not "trai"?

I'm trying to make the point that English uses combinations of letters to pronounce accents, and the avoir example above shows a bit of a disrepancy in the French usage of letter combinations to get accross a sound and accents, when a grave and "ai" give a most similar sound. Or is there a subtle difference I am missing

	15-07-2004 15:09									#97
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Je prononce très comment (je crois) "treh" en anglais, seulement que mon "e" est courte.

Et pour "J'ai" est "Sche" en alleman et "Je" est "Schö". En anglais est quand tu dis "shell" seulement sans "ll", mais tu ne dois pas dire "she"

I explained how I'd pronounce très and J'ai resp. Je

	15-07-2004 15:51									#98
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Je voudrais bien discuter Civ (Civ 2 seulement ) and n'importe quoi d'autre avec vous, mais je n'ai pas envie à traduire ce que je vien de dire. Bon courage à tous ceux aussi assidus à continuer.

I'd love to chat about Civ 2 and whatever else, but I don't want to translate everything I've just said. I salute those who are diligent enough to keep doing this though.

Am I supposed to translate smilies?

	15-07-2004 15:53									#99
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This thread couldn't have come at a better time

	15-07-2004 17:58									#100
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Similar sounds: ai, é. et
Similar sounds: ais, ais, è, est
These sets of sounds are different.
Personnally, although it should be pronounced 'tray', I pronounce très 'trai'. As a good Lorrain, I also pronounce lai instead of lay for lait (milk). So it depends on a lot of things. Many people are unable to hear the difference between in and un for instance but it really pisses me off when one pronounces one for the other.
Do not believe there are inconsistencies in the way French is written. Except for borrowed words, there aren't. The rules are just a bit complex (les règles sont juste un peu compliquées).
Also don't trust Spiffor when he says final e aren't pronounced. If you go far enough to the south, people pronounce the e's. They also become unable to pronounce words like 'rose' properly (I say 'rôse').

	15-07-2004 19:21									#101
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Similar sounds: ai, é. et Similar sounds: ais, ais, è, est These sets of sounds are different. Personnally, although it should be pronounced 'tray', I pronounce très 'trai'. As a good Lorrain, I also pronounce lai instead of lay for lait (milk). So it depends on a lot of things.

è is non-ambiguous. It is pronounced as the 'e' in 'set' or 'less'. When it's pronounced otherwise it's specific to a region.
ai is pronounced as the 'a' of 'fate' if final (or almost final just before an e). When followed by another letter it's as è.

quote: Many people are unable to hear the difference between in and un for instance but it really pisses me off when one pronounces one for the other.

Depends on the region. Most parts of France do not make the difference. (piss off the Belgians too ), so that some dictionnaries now allows to pronounced 'brun' same as 'brin'.

quote: Do not believe there are inconsistencies in the way French is written. Except for borrowed words, there aren't. The rules are just a bit complex (les règles sont juste un peu compliquées).

One comes to my mind... how do you pronounce 'événement'?

quote: Also don't trust Spiffor when he says final e aren't pronounced. If you go far enough to the south, people pronounce the e's. They also become unable to pronounce words like 'rose' properly (I say 'rôse').

I would agree with Spiffor on that.
And I even add:
't', as in 'mandat' (mandate).
'd' as in 'comprend' (understand)
'p' as in 'trop' (too much)
'x' as in 'cheveaux' (horses)
'l' as in 'fusil' (gun)
'c' as in 'tronc' (trunk)
... and I think I forget some others.

	15-07-2004 19:30									#102
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Rose just elongates the S sound. There is no independent E sound. Spiffor a raison.

	16-07-2004 01:44									#103
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quote: that some dictionnaries now allows to pronounced 'brun' same as 'brin'

Reading that makes my teeth grind. Brrr...

quote: how do you pronounce 'événement'?

I (mis?)spell it évènement.
I just talked about the final e, not all final letters. Some of them are pronounced (liaison) if followed by a vowel sound: 'trop appuyé' = 'trop apuiyé', 'trop poussé' = 'tro pusé' (too pushed), but oftentimes are not.
As for rose: the o is not pronounced the same in Lorraine and in Béarn. The final e can be pronounced by southerners, but will never be by northerners.
But as far as foreigners are concerned, never pronounce final e's. Don't be surprised if you can't understand what a marseillais will tell you, however.

	16-07-2004 03:56									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Vraiment tu prononces très comment tray en anglais? J'ai cru que le "è" est plus pure.

Le è est plus pur, c'est juste. Autant que je sache, le son "ay" comme dans l'Anglais "Stray dog" est quasi inexistant en Français. J'ai utilisé cette façon de représenter le son par simplicité, mais je ne veux surtout pas induire qu'il y aurait une diphtongue dans "très", "près" "père" etc.

De manière général, il y a beaucoup moins de diphtongues en Français qu'en Anglais. Les diphtongues courantes du français sont "oi" et tous les mots comprenant "ille". A part pour ces deux là, c'est mieux de partir du principe qu'un son ne sera pas une diphtongue (même si ce sera parfois faux)

[i]The è is more pure indeed. I didn't want to imply there was a diphtongue ( ) in the words above. In general, diphtongues are rare in Franch, and save when you see "oi" and "ille", it's better to consider the sound isn't one.

	16-07-2004 13:27									#105
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Now, something more funny.
A small french enigma.
One of the weirdest rules in french.
I think only 1 French on 100 knows it (I think Spiffor could know it).
I'd also like to know if this exist in other languages.

What weird rule share the 3 following words:
Amour (love)
Délice (delight)
Orgue (organ, the music intrument)

	16-07-2004 14:12									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Je ne sais pas. Ils capitalise "Je" en russe, aussi.

Ce n'est pas vrai!

	16-07-2004 14:12									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel je'ais perdu la pomme a la sortir. If you understand russian, it's pretty funny.

	16-07-2004 17:19									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Dry I think only 1 French on 100 knows it (I think Spiffor could know it). What weird rule share the 3 following words: Amour (love) Délice (delight) Orgue (organ, the music intrument)

No, even I don't know what rule it is. But I'm not really the Grammarian

	16-07-2004 17:41									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor No, even I don't know what rule it is. But I'm not really the Grammarian

Well, if you don't know it, who does...
Probably you know it for amour and orgue, fewer people know it for delice.
So, here is the answer:

spoiler(highlight to read): The 3 words are masculin when in singular form, feminine when plural. Un grand amour, de belles amours contrariees. Un vrai delice, des delices trompeuses. Un orgue, les grandes orgues.

Do you know any other language that has that kind of ... exception?

	16-07-2004 17:55									#110
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quote: Ce n'est pas vrai!

Vraimant? Je capitalize 'je' en russe ou toutes le temps.

Really? I always capitilize 'I' in russian.

	16-07-2004 20:17									#111
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Moi je le savais (I knew it)!

	16-07-2004 20:26									#112
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Est ce comma sa? Quel surprise. J'ais questionne mon merre, and elle ma dit q'ils ne capitalise "je" en russe. Je feel comme un imbecile.


Is it so? what a surprise. I've asked mom about it, and she told me that "I" is not capitalized in Russian. I feel like an idiot.

so how do you say "feel" en francais?

	16-07-2004 20:30									#113
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Je me sens comme un idiot!

Je suis certain quelqun va prendre ca et placer le dans sa sig


i explained what az asked (jesus translating is stupid)

	16-07-2004 20:38									#114
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"Sens", D-oh! I forgot this.

quote: Je suis certain quelqun va prendre ca et placer le dans sa sig

Main non. C'est ne pas originel.

nope, that's not original.

quote: jesus translating is stupid

	16-07-2004 20:51									#115
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Je bois une sorte de fanta, mais ce n'est pas une vrai fanta. Elle a le gout de ces choses avec les quels on tu des incects. C'est ne pas tres pleasant. Aussi je fume de cigarettes qui ne sont pas tres chers.

Aussi je mange une salade du villagier avec de feta et olive. Ca c'est excellent.

La temperature est froide maintnant. Le radio jue "love is on the loose tonight" et j'ai encore une fois oublier d'aller acheter un dvd player.


I'm drinking fanta, smoking and eating a salade. the weather is cold and i forgotten to buy a dvd plaeyr

	16-07-2004 20:56									#116
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Peut etre il fault demander qu'on puisse arreter de tranduir. C'est vraiment fatigaunt.


Maybe we should ask to stop transating it's really tiresome.

	16-07-2004 20:59									#117
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Par example Azazel pourait me demander: mais tu mange une salade et tu fume en meme temps?
Ou faire une blague and j'aurais repondu etc etc
S'il faut tranduir ca derange et arrete la discussion.



translating stops the free flow of french and of the discussion, it's thoroughly counterproductive

	16-07-2004 21:11									#118
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Quelque temps quand je suis trop fatigue, je prefer lire les phrases anglais
Donc, je suis d'accord et en plus je me sens comme un enfant, mais en cette forum probablemente les choses sont differentes

Aujourd'hui j'ai mangé un Risotto y je ne fume pas, seulement quand je sortie.

Un problem ici, est que nous n'avons pas un topic de parler
Nous avons parlé seulement de la language français

	16-07-2004 21:16									#119
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Mais la verite est que s'ils nous laisse simplement parler en francais, nous decouvrons nous memes un suject de discussion, et on pourrais continuer sans des interruptions.

Il y a beaucopu de gens qui parlent francais, il y aura beaucoup des suject si ils nous ne interroptais pas!

Je suis certain de ca. Il y a commencer comme ca.

	16-07-2004 21:24									#120
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quote: Peut etre il fault demander qu'on puisse arreter de tranduir. C'est vraiment fatigaunt.

Tu as raison, mais, tu sais tres bien que les maudites moderateurs vait que nous ne parlerais les different langues, c'est le command de Markos et Daniel. Puex t'etre, tu peux parler avec Markos, pour nous.

You're right but the mods don't want us to speak different languages, because of MarkG, and DanQ . Maybe, you can talk to him.