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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:35
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quote:
Generally one's emotional perception (though "perception" is perhaps not quite the best word in this case, as it isn't exactly an outside influence but rather one generated by the wholly irrational portion of your mind).
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On the contrary, I think perception is the perfect word here. I am perceiving something, and yet I cannot explain it, I can rationalise the possiblity of its existence. You need to define "irrational" here, and not merely as the antithesis to rationality. Furthermore, I think that if you are going to introduce the notion of utter irrationality into a universe you yourself admit is rational, then you have provided a conclusion that contradicts one of its own premises.
I mean we all perceive things differently. I really am a poster boy for cognitive relativism  . I might see something profoundly related to my existentialism where you might see a coincidence and our respective reactions are accordingly cool for both of us.
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Logic is universal.
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Let's not go down this path again  . Standard logic breaks down in two places, 5-dimensional space and the human mind, quantitively and qualitatively respectively.
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That what, exactly, is the case?
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That it is folly not to allow for the possibility that people may perceive and describe the existence of a force in the universe greater than that which rationality alone can account for.
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
On the contrary, I think perception is the perfect word here. |
I was speaking of perception as in perception of emotion, based on the fact that generally "feel" in that context refers to an emotion. If this is some sort of actual sensory perception, then the parenthetical doesn't apply anyway.
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I am perceiving something, and yet I cannot explain it, I can rationalise the possiblity of its existence. |
Possibility? Of course it exists if you perceive it ("it" being that which you perceived, not necessarily what you think you perceived  ).
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You need to define "irrational" here, and not merely as the antithesis to rationality. |
The part of your mind that generates your emotions has no founding in logic - while logic may be used to determine which emotions you feel, the mapping of perceptions to emotions is arbitrary.
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Furthermore, I think that if you are going to introduce the notion of utter irrationality into a universe you yourself admit is rational, then you have provided a conclusion that contradicts one of its own premises. |
The universe is rational? Huh?
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I mean we all perceive things differently. I really am a poster boy for cognitive relativism . I might see something profoundly related to my existentialism where you might see a coincidence and our respective reactions are accordingly cool for both of us. |
I think I agree with you, though not your conclusion. We "perceive" the same thing, but our brains represent it differently and I must assume our minds represent it wholly differently (such that no meaningful communication could be made directly between them), but that does not mean we should not arrive at the same conclusions from the same perceptions. Even if my mind represents red light with what your mind uses for blue, it doesn't change the fact that if we see a blazing red thing we shouldn't conclude that there's a fire 
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Let's not go down this path again . Standard logic breaks down in two places, 5-dimensional space and the human mind, quantitively and qualitatively respectively. |
Huh?
Logic is universal. Give me one circumstance in which P -> P is false, and you'll convince me to the contrary.
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That it is folly not to allow for the possibility that people may perceive and describe the existence of a force in the universe greater than that which rationality alone can account for. |
Oh, I'm quite aware that they do that. I also think those people are incorrect.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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Even if I had no belief in G-d, it would be hard to give up Shabbat. Its a chance to not just not work, but to make a change from other aspects of time, to stop and reflect, break the ordinary run of the week. On those rare occasions when Im able to come closer to a strict shabbat, with no electronics, no chores, no running around, only spiritual and related intellectual or family activities, its very refreshing.
Selection A.
'A 20th century Jewish philosopher, Mordechai Kaplan, compared our rest on Shabbat to an artist, in the course of his or her work. Kaplan also didn’t say “her,” when he wrote this in the early 20th century, although, at the end of his life, which almost spanned the century, he became an active feminist, as did the Reconstructionist movement, which is based on Kaplan’s thought. Whether he or she, the artist, while painting on a canvas, will pause, step back, and, in Kaplan’s words, “freshen his vision of the object, the meaning of which he wishes to express on his canvas.” “The Sabbath,” Kaplan continues, “represents those moments when we pause in our brushwork to renew our vision of our object,” that is, of our lives. '
Selection B.
'Since its original publication in 1951, Abraham Joshua Heschel's classic of Jewish spirituality has been read by thousands of people seeking meaning in modern life. Heschel, one of the most widely respected and loved religious leaders of the twentieth century, introduced, in this brief yet profound meditation of the meaning of the Seventh Day, the enormously influential idea of an "architecture of holiness" that appears not in space but in time. Judaism, he argues, is a religion of time, finding meaning not in space and the material things that fill it but in time and the eternity that imbues it, so that "the Sabbaths are our great cathedrals."
Last edited by lord of the mark on 19-07-2004 at 19:45
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
I work Saturdays and sometimes Sundays as well. The pay is better. |
"I once was an explorer, to africa I went, when shabbos hungry lions, came zooming round my tent! My assistant grabbed my rifle, go goomber shoot those pests but instead I invited them to be my shabbos guests!
Chorus:
Ain't gonna work on Saturday
Ain't gonna work on Saturday
Double, double, triple pay
Won't make me work on Saturday
Ain't gonna work on Saturday
It's Shabbos Kodesh
I'm big Gedalia Goomber, I'm not exactly small,
But really not so very big, just seventeen feet tall.
I'm really rigged for working, for that I'm very fit,
Six days a week I'm at it, and on the seventh day I quit.
I once helped raise a building, and on the 100th floor,
I was carrying a load of bricks, an easy ton or more.
And here it's late on Friday, I knew I'd have to stop,
So I yelled, "watch out below!", and let the whole thing drop.
At driving a locomotive, I thought I'd take a crack,
I had the throttle wide open, zooming down the track.
And here it's almost Shabbos, the sun's about to set,
So I dove into a mudhole, and the train is running yet.
I worked down in a coal mine, and lost myself alright,
I couldn't tell the days apart, because there was no light.
So I set myself to digging, just as fast as you may please,
And I popped up in an hour, where the people speak Chinese.
I worked at Cape Kennedy, and things were going right,
A great big rocket ship was set, on the launching site.
And here it's getting dark, Shabbos was coming soon,
So I pushed the starting button, and spent Shabbos on the moon.
I turned to deep-sea diving, and took an awful chance,
On a sunken steamer's deck, I got caught by my pants.
And trapped beneath the ocean, I couldn't set me free,
But I went home for Shabbos, and dragged the boat with me.
i once was on a baseball team, Shomer Shabbos was its name,
the score was zero zero, in this exciting game,
then i was up to bat, and shabbos was coming soon,
So i hit that ball so very hard, it landed on the moon.
I dress my best on Shabbos, three meals I feast me fine,
I make a royal Kiddush on a barrel full of wine.
And when I sing my Zmiros, for a thousand miles they know,
That I'm enjoying Shabbos, for Hashem has told us so.
Once to split the atom with effort I had learned
Suddenly there was a blast! Boy did I get burned
Everyone was worried but the doctors I did tell
"That by keeping Shabbos Holy I would soon be fit and well! '
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:35
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quote:
If there is a "god" then he/she/it created me for a purpose, that I can only find by introspection and not some text.
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So what do you surmise about God, from introspection?
Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 19-07-2004 at 23:39
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
I just share because some people get caught up in "RELIGIOUS" activities such as going to Sunday School and then to Worship services, passing by the stranded motorists or poor soul needing help and then on to a restaurant but when it comes to so called "WORK" as a vocation they say "NO" because God intended the Sabbath as a day of Rest?
Ok, what is the difference between the person working bussing tables or cooking the food on a sabbath (be it they be Christian or not) and you actually, say, making a delivery on that Sabbath?
Are youn not causing that person to "SIN" by eating at that restaurant? I am not saying its a SIN I am just saying people whom say you shouldnt work on the Sabbath should also not prepare a meal or go to a restaurant and have someone else do it either.
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In Jewish law, you are not allowed to go to a restaurant on Shabbos, since youre not allowed to handle money - transact business on Shabbos.
This does leave the question of "essential" services, emergency room care, police, fire, utilities, etc.
The Rabbinic injunction that its permissible to violate Shabbos to save a life does not help, since many such essential services are not necessary to directly save life, though bad consequences would ensue if they were suspended for 24 hours.
The practice in the diaspora is for an observant Jew to refuse such employment, secure in the knowledge that non-Jews will work on those days. The laws of the Torah are NOT incumbent on non-Jews, so no one is thereby being forced into sin (certain ethical laws ARE incumbent on non-Jews, but Sabbath observance is NOT one of them) Of course Observant Jews may work on Sunday, thus helping non-Jews have a day of rest.
In Israel it is often the case that in some essential instituions all or almost all employees are Jews. As a practical matter observant Jews refuse such employment secure in the knowledge that non-observant Jews will perform such work. However this IS causing others to sin. At least one Orthodox Jewish thinker in Israel has called for a revision of Jewish law, so that Orthodox Jews WOULD accept such employment, so that they not push others to sin .
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18-07-2004 07:38
Religion, in most things, has been repaced by Science and Philosophy as the best coping mechanism.
@Whaleboy.
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