 |
|
Jon Miller
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I don't believe in legislating alcohol. |
I am comfortable with the age limits
JM
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
 |
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
What else are we discussing if not philosophy (or its bastard cousin theology)?
God sounds like a right anal-retentive tosser from the way you're describing him. Unless you believe that God has nothing to do with it and that it's all a bunch of mumbo-jumbo cobbled together over the centuries?
i.e. one more silly tradition |
I thought we were discussing religious practice, which isnt the same thing. Theology - theo - logos - is really a christian concept - traditional Jews dont parse things out like that. Christians - and ex-christians or christian influenced Atheists  always seem to be up for some God talk - thats really not what religious Jews spend all their time talking about - though in talking about other things we honor God.
Im reluctant to 'describe' G-d - for a lot of reasons - but your hardly new in being a gentile who finds jewish religious law anal - Id say St. Paul found it thus, though he used different language. All I can say is that its a different civilization with a different way of looking at things - you need to get at it a little more from the inside, with a bit more of an open mind if you wish to understand it (not that you need to - you can live a perfectly full life knowing nothing of Judaism)
As for mumbo jumbo cobbled over the centuries - I happen to follow that school of Judaism that sees the hand of God IN the actions and history of the Jewish people through the centuries, NOT handing down stuff magically on a mountain in Sinai - so the distinction you make is somewhat foreign to me.
another POV on prohibited "work"
'Of course, no discussion of Shabbat would be complete without a discussion of the work that is forbidden on Shabbat. This is another aspect of Shabbat that is grossly misunderstood by people who do not observe it.
Most Americans see the word "work" and think of it in the English sense of the word: physical labor and effort, or employment. Under this definition, turning on a light would be permitted, because it does not require effort, but a rabbi would not be permitted to lead Shabbat services, because leading services is his employment. Jewish law prohibits the former and permits the latter. Many Americans therefore conclude that Jewish law doesn't make any sense.
The problem lies not in Jewish law, but in the definition that Americans are using. The Torah does not prohibit "work" in the 20th century English sense of the word. The Torah prohibits "melachah" (Mem-Lamed-Alef-Kaf-Heh), which is usually translated as "work," but does not mean precisely the same thing as the English word. Before you can begin to understand the Shabbat restrictions, you must understand the word "melachah."
Melachah generally refers to the kind of work that is creative, or that exercises control or dominion over your environment. The word may be related to "melekh" (king; Mem-Lamed-Kaf). The quintessential example of melachah is the work of creating the universe, which G-d ceased from on the seventh day. Note that G-d's work did not require a great physical effort: he spoke, and it was done.
The word melachah is rarely used in scripture outside of the context of Shabbat and holiday restrictions. The only other repeated use of the word is in the discussion of the building of the sanctuary and its vessels in the wilderness. Exodus Ch. 31, 35-38. Notably, the Shabbat restrictions are reiterated during this discussion (Ex. 31:13), thus we can infer that the work of creating the sanctuary had to be stopped for Shabbat. From this, the rabbis concluded that the work prohibited on Shabbat is the same as the work of creating the sanctuary. They found 39 categories of forbidden acts, all of which are types of work that were needed to build the sanctuary: '
Last edited by lord of the mark on 20-07-2004 at 01:07
|
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
|
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It can if the homily is in Latin.
Or in my case, if I can't sit near the front. |
Yeah, I cant follow a sermon in Yiddish or even in Modern Hebrew - in fact i have some difficulty with a Rabbi Frand sermon, in "Yeshivash" (nominally English, but so heavily laced with technical terms of Jewish law from Hebrew and Aramaic, plus Yiddish phrases, as to be virtually a foreign language) actually even with Reform, Conservative, and Modern Orthodox sermons in America language is an issue - too many references to say, "Moses" and "Leviticus" (rather than Moshe and VeYikra) and it doesnt feel right - the use of Hebrew (example melachah in the discussion above, instead of the misleading "work") can also avoid theoretical confusion. OTOH TOO MUCH Hebrew and I cant follow it. Fortunately theres plenty of choices, so we can look for what we find comfortable.
As for sitting near the front, my shul allows al hearing system, like some theaters use - too bad if youre Orthodox.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
SDA churchs are on general not tha large
JM
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
St Leo
|
 |
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
True. Which is why I'm surprised that people feel a world without Christianity would bring bountiful blessings. |
Well, Atheism is a Big Tent. Everyone can join and everyone brings an opinion of their own.
Personally, I am yearning for the death of religions because they are false.
It has taken use centuries, but humanity has finally learned a few things about the world -- physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy, and palaeontology -- and yet many still refuse to even acknowledge our accomplishment.
There are no souls. There is no afterlife. Good and Evil are flawed, anthropocentric ways of looking at the apathetic universe. There is no supernatural capable of intervening in the universe or of being intervened on by the universe.
Priests are snake oil sellers. That's what they have always been. Many of them believe in the snake oil themselves
Seeing people cast away the tools they have is like seeing Bre-X investors still pretending that there is gold in Indonesia. Or like seeing proud tourists stopping Brooklyn natives, pointing at the bridge, and grinning the mad grin of possession. It's sad.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
I wish that the atheists could stick to thread topic ona t least one religion thread
JM
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ben Kenobi
|
 |
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:35
|
|
quote:
Personally, I am yearning for the death of religions because they are false.
|
Have they been proven to be false? Or have some erroneous assumptions been shown to be false?
quote:
It has taken use centuries, but humanity has finally learned a few things about the world -- physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy, and palaeontology -- and yet many still refuse to even acknowledge our accomplishment.
|
Let's see. Physics I suppose would be good old Galileo with his observation that an object in motion will continue to be in motion, unless a force acts to oppose that motion.
Nothing in that contradictory to Christianity.
Chemistry, I suppose would be the periodic table, and showing how things like radioactive decay can transform elements from one to the other. It can also show us why things react in the way that they do and how they form bonds.
I don't see anything in there contradictory to Christianity.
Biology, I guess would be Darwin, and his observations that species adapt to their environment, or Mendel and his observations of heredity, how traits in one generation can be replicated for future generations.
Nothing there that would seem contradictory to Christianity.
Astronomy?
Kepler's observation that the planets orbit the sun in ellipses, with the sun at one foci?
Perhaps contradictory to Scholasticism, but to Christianity? No.
Paleontology?
The discovery of ancient species that no longer walk the Earth? The only thing this is contrary to is an assumption that the Earth can only be 6K years old, an assumption never explicitly stated in Scripture.
I agree, science has contributed much, but they are not the only source of truth, nor does science claim to be. Many of the greatest scientific discoveries, by the giants in their field were made by Christians in Europe, who saw themselves as revealing a mystery left by God.
So I don't see anything contrary to this balancing between science and Christianity, which has produced many of the greatest minds that we have seen.
One could argue that the single minded determination of scientists to do away with religion robs them of much of their strength.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:35.
Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
20-07-2004 00:30
) that R. Hirsch is a Cartesian dualist. If so, and if such dualism is obsolete, a different interpretation of the categories of work will be needed. And rest assured, a different interpretation will be found
|