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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Linda Rondstadt fired for supporting Michael Moore! What about freedom of Speech?
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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 12:11
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What about some morning DJ in Quebec city? That seems to be good for a license being pulled. Did the chain with Howard Stern have their licenses pulled?

Then there is Fox being denied air time, but AJ is OK by the CRTC.

Tell me where the cultural problem is in this story, compared to the sad tale that is being acted out North of the 49th.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 12:20
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AJ is fine because IIRC the Canadian audience lacked access to an Arab news broadcaster. If you hadn't noticed, Canada is a multicultural society.

In both those cases the question is one of law, not personal or corporate preference.

A society in which it is generally accepted that your boss can fire you, or it is accepted that he feels that it is his right to do so, for expressing your admiration for an opposing political view is not a society in which free speech can flourish.

And that is America, the most craven, spineless, conformist country in the Western world. Only in America can you be accused of being anti-American. When did you last hear of someone being called anti-Canadian?

Ben complains about being persecuted for his political views, but the truth is that most people don't give a toss.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 12:43 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Agathon

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 12:44
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At the Ted Nugent gig at Sweden Rock Festival 2002, he was booed at when he expressed his support for what US Air Force did in Afghanistan. But being kicked off the stage - no, that would not happen here. Only neo-nazis are banned here.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
AJ is fine because IIRC the Canadian audience lacked access to an Arab news broadcaster. If you hadn't noticed, Canada is a multicultural society.


AJ /= Arab. AJ = people who have advanced warning of bombs to kill civies and turn up to film the carnage. Saying that AJ equals Arab culture is like saying Fox equals English culture, because they speak the same language.

quote:
In both those cases the question is one of law, not personal or corporate preference.


In the case of the Quebec radio station, I would say it is personal preference, since no judge has yet had a say on them, just the toadies of the CRTC. Are they judges? Do they decide our law?

quote:
A society in which it is generally accepted that your boss can fire you, or it is accepted that he feels that it is his right to do so, for expressing your admiration for an opposing political view is not a society in which free speech can flourish.


Wake up and smell the coffee. You've been living, and thriving it seems, in just such societies.

quote:
And that is America, the most craven, spineless, conformist country in the Western world. Only in America can you be accused of being anti-American. When did you last hear of someone being called anti-Canadian?


Excuse me? Was I dreaming during the last election when 30% plus of the electorate, and one out of ten provinces, had horns placed on them for supporting the 'troglodytes'?

You are so full of discarded cow cud, I wonder how you keep going sometimes. The toxins have to have an effect sometime.

quote:
Ben complains about being persecuted for his political views, but the truth is that most people don't give a toss.


Apparantly, you do. Which would be why you spent the time to spew that pile of bile on this forum, yes?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 13:51
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quote:
Wake up and smell the coffee. You've been living, and thriving it seems, in just such societies.


Not in Alberta, it seems.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. A society that really values free speech, and wants to benefit from open discussion does not have as a cultural norm the boycotting and hate mailing of people who express different views.

It's called a tolerant society, and while none is perfect, some are a lot better than others.

Jesus, if a well known NZ group said they didn't like the Prime Minister, no one would notice or even care. No one would stop buying their records either. The reason being that we aren't quite as pathetic as the Dixie Chicks boycotters, or the ignorant oafs who burned Beatles albums.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 20-07-2004 13:59
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Ohhh, you bring it home to sweet home Alaberta, where the skys are so blue....

Here's a clue, to keep you employed, you need to be tolerant, and mindful of your employers wishes.

How you drag the Dixie Chicks into this is a marvel. They weren't fired by anyone. Stations chose not to play their music when doing so would piss off listeners.

And if NZ mattered more than a seagull's fart in a hurricane, someone might actually ask their opinion sometime.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 16:50 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
You need to wake up and smell the coffee. A society that really values free speech, and wants to benefit from open discussion does not have as a cultural norm the boycotting and hate mailing of people who express different views.

It's called a tolerant society, and while none is perfect, some are a lot better than others.

Jesus, if a well known NZ group said they didn't like the Prime Minister, no one would notice or even care. No one would stop buying their records either. The reason being that we aren't quite as pathetic as the Dixie Chicks boycotters, or the ignorant oafs who burned Beatles albums.


Gee... you aren't very tolerant of people who express different views than your own... you just insult them, and state your point of view while ignoring theirs... So much for being a member of a so called tolerant society

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 17:06
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quote:
In an interview with the Las Vegas Review-Journal before the show, Ronstadt said ``I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back.''
I think this got lost in the shuffle of the whining about free speech. Though I still haven't the foggiest notion who this lady is.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 17:28 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Ripped her picture off my wall already.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 17:37 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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Her and the Dixie Chicks eh?

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 18:49
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Freedomn of sppech is irrelevant to private employment contract situtations, and in this case she not only being political, she was pissing on the Club emplying her, doing that much more that the the one political line.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Typical of the States. You all whine about free speech and the importance of allowing people to express their ideas to further public debate, and then try to strong arm or organize boycotts against people who say things you don't like. It's not a legal problem or a rights problem, it's a cultural problem with people who aren't prepared to pay the price of what they preach.


As opposed to simply outlawing it like in Canada?

Dumbass.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
AJ is fine because IIRC the Canadian audience lacked access to an Arab news broadcaster. If you hadn't noticed, Canada is a multicultural society.


I like this admission that Arab culture is one of hatred and death.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:19
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quote:
try to strong arm or organize boycotts against people who say things you don't like


Yes... freedom of speech. It kind of is a two way street. You can say what you want but people can protest that or boycott it. Saying that people exercising their free speech rights is detrimental to free speech is just an absurd position.

quote:
Gee... you aren't very tolerant of people who express different views than your own... you just insult them, and state your point of view while ignoring theirs... So much for being a member of a so called tolerant society




Damn... that's the worst case of PWNAGE I've seen on these boards. OUCH!

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:22 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Here's a clue, to keep you employed, you need to be tolerant, and mindful of your employers wishes.


Yes, we know that, because we live in a authoritarian society.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming


Gee... you aren't very tolerant of people who express different views than your own... you just insult them, and state your point of view while ignoring theirs... So much for being a member of a so called tolerant society


I do find it more than a bit ironic that Aggie is protesting re: free speech given his past attitudes and then to have Ming the Merciless as a defender of free speech.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
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Mar 2003
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  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:28 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Insulting people and ignoring them is not the same thing as shuting them up.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Insulting people and ignoring them is not the same thing as shuting them up.


Not according to:

quote:
You need to wake up and smell the coffee. A society that really values free speech, and wants to benefit from open discussion does not have as a cultural norm the boycotting and hate mailing of people who express different views.

It's called a tolerant society, and while none is perfect, some are a lot better than others.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
It's lik a bad "Who's on First?" routine.



ACK!


That's exactly what it was, and I was Abbott. Oy.

quote:
You seem to have blown that into a craptacular frenzy of rights for plumbers.


I never mentioned plumbers' rights, either.

My issue wasn't about rights at all, really. It's about what makes someone "qualified," as it were, to voice an opinion about a subject. We don't seem to mind any joe schmoe here expressing his opinion on politics, but the moment a celebrity does it, the barrage of comments that such folk's opinion's don't matter. Seems like an odd double standard (This is seperate from the issue of them using someone else's property and dime to voice their opinion, though).

Celebrities speak out on all sorts of issues--even at their concerts--and people seem to be fine with it: AIDS, poverty, charities, hunger, etc. But if it's a political message, suddenly the singer is unqualified. Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

Now, wrt to Rondstadt, I do have to ask this--was it the voicing of the opinion that upset the half of the audience that walked out, or the message itself? I'd say the latter, and had she voiced the opposite opinion and called Michael Moore a jerkface who should shut up, those who had left would have stayed and cheered and probably the other half would have walked out in anger. So it just goes to show that people don't mind political commentary in their concerts, so long as they agree with it.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:40
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Boris, forget it. You're talking right past him. I'm somewhat confused about where he even gets half the stuff in his posts.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Boris, forget it. You're talking right past him. I'm somewhat confused about where he even gets half the stuff in his posts.


Yeah, this is my last attempt. He was obviously looking for an argument that I wasn't giving him.

But it looks like Aggie stepped up and gave it to him, so at least he'll be placated.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:48
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She wanted to be fired, she got fired. What's the problem?

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:58
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I think the surprising thing to me is her 'fans' leaving in response to a politically motivated song. Linda Ronstadt was always a far lefty politico-type. Did it come as some kinda surprise to them? If I went to see a Joan Baez concert I wouldnt be surprised if she was 'a tad' critical of the current US administration and I sure as **** wouldnt leave over it (I'd just plug my ears between songs ).

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 20-07-2004 20:59
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Technically, she wasn't fired. She was only hired to perform one concert, which she did. It was after her concert obligation had ended that the owner opted to remove her from the premises.

Personally, had I been in his place, I would have just let her leave peacibly and make it clear to her management that I'd not be bringing her back to the hotel ever again. The spectacle and media uproar of her being tossed out will ultimately cause the hotel more problems than it wants.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 20-07-2004 21:06
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
I think the surprising thing to me is her 'fans' leaving in response to a politically motivated song. Linda Ronstadt was always a far lefty politico-type. Did it come as some kinda surprise to them? If I went to see a Joan Baez concert I wouldnt be surprised if she was 'a tad' critical of the current US administration and I sure as **** wouldnt leave over it (I'd just plug my ears between songs ).


I asked my mom about this, as she is a big Linda Rondstadt fan and has all of her albums. Mom said it wasn't a shock to her, either--she'd been to several concerts, and Rondstadt had always expressed support for liberal causes, although she couldn't recall anything overtly political.

An interesting insight my mom had is that Rondstadt has, as of late, been decidedly lackluster in her concerts, just going through the motions, not giving encores, etc. So maybe the audience was already steamed at being treated to a mediocre show for which they paid $80 a ticket, and then the political commentary was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 21:15
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It's such a shame that in the country that praises freedom, we have ignorant douchebags who want to punish celebrities for expressing their views. These people are flag waving dopes... but in reality they hate America. They hate freedom and they hate it when someone (especially a woman) expresses an opinion they disagree with. But this is expected from the right. If I were Rondstadt, I would have been mindful of something like this.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 20-07-2004 21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
She wanted to be fired, she got fired. What's the problem?


Aggie needed something to troll about. Sava too.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 20-07-2004 21:25
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not a troll... I really do think its a shame people feel the need to punish others for expressing their views.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
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Oct 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-07-2004 21:29
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Celebrities are accountable for their opinions. The majority of What a 'celebrity' sells is his image, most particularly for thoses that do concerst. If you want good musci you listen on your home entertainments ystem. Fans that go to concerst do it to indentify with and be near celebrities much more that to consume their music. Opinons and how they are expressed are part the image being sold. If a celeb irritates his fan base, he 100% deserves to be pissed on and boycotted by them. It is the natural and correct result in such a relationship.

 
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