 |
| |
|
|
molly bloom
|
 |
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
I was reading an interesting article a while back. It was saying that in Rwanda's Muslims doubled in the past decade (to something like 15% of the population). The reason seems to be that a lot of the RCC in Rwanda was complicit in the genocide, while Muslim leaders did a lot to protect the Tutsis. |
Snap.
"Though Muslims remain a small percentage of Rwanda's 8 million people, Islam is on the rise eight years after
the 1994 genocide brought 100 days of murder, terror
and mayhem. More than 500,000 minority Tutsis and
political moderates from the Hutu majority were killed
by Hutu militiamen, soldiers and ordinary citizens in
a slaughter orchestrated by the extremist Hutu
government then in power.
"For Hutus, conversion to Islam was like purification,
a way of getting rid of a stigma," Habimana said.
"After the genocide, Hutus felt that the society
perceives them as having blood on their hands."
Arab merchants trading in ivory and slaves introduced
Islam to Rwanda in the 18th century. The faith grew
after 1908 when waves of Muslims flowed in from
Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda and Sudan at the beginning of
European colonial rule.
For nearly a century, Muslims remained on the fringes
of Rwandan society. The faithful in Kigali were
restricted to Biryogo, a dusty neighborhood where the
Al-Fatah mosque now stands. They needed permits to
leave.
During the genocide, Muslims were among the few
Rwandans who protected both neighbors and strangers.
Elsewhere, many Hutus hunted down or betrayed their
Tutsi neighbors and strangers suspected of belonging
to the minority."
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollyw...st/rwanda2.html
and:
'RUHENGERI, Rwanda -- The villagers with their forest
green head wraps and forest green Korans arrived at
the mosque on a rainy Sunday afternoon for a lecture
for new converts. There was one main topic: jihad.
They found their seats and flipped to the right page.
Hands flew in the air. People read passages aloud. And
the word jihad -- holy struggle -- echoed again and
again through the dark, leaky room.
It wasn't the kind of jihad that has been in the news
since Sept. 11, 2001. There were no references to
Osama bin Laden, the World Trade Center or suicide
bombers. Instead there was only talk of April 6, 1994,
the first day of the state-sponsored genocide in which
ethnic Hutu extremists killed 800,000 minority Tutsis
and Hutu moderates.
"We have our own jihad, and that is our war against
ignorance between Hutu and Tutsi. It is our struggle
to heal," said Saleh Habimana, the head mufti of
Rwanda. "Our jihad is to start respecting each other
and living as Rwandans and as Muslims."
Since the genocide, Rwandans have converted to Islam
in huge numbers. Muslims now make up 14 percent of the
8.2 million people here in Africa's most Catholic
nation, twice as many as before the killings began.
Many converts say they chose Islam because of the role
that some Catholic and Protestant leaders played in
the genocide. Human rights groups have documented
several incidents in which Christian clerics allowed
Tutsis to seek refuge in churches, then surrendered
them to Hutu death squads, as well as instances of
Hutu priests and ministers encouraging their
congregations to kill Tutsis. Today some churches
serve as memorials to the many people slaughtered
among their pews.
Four clergymen are facing genocide charges at the
U.N.-created International Criminal Tribunal for
Rwanda, and last year in Belgium, the former colonial
power, two Rwandan nuns were convicted of murder for
their roles in the massacre of 7,000 Tutsis who sought
protection at a Benedictine convent.'
http://search.aol.com.au/redir.adp?...l&searchType=MS
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tripledoc
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I hate to break this to you, but americans aren't christians. |
Uh hu?!?
Care to elaborate?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
molly bloom
|
|
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I hate to break this to you, but americans aren't christians. |
Not yet.
Book your seat on the Bush Bus to Zion:
God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.
George W. Bush, according to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, from minutes acquired by Ha'aretz from cease-fire negotiations between Abbas and faction leaders from the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular and Democratic Fronts (circa June, 2003), quoted from:
Arnon Regular, ' "Road map is a life saver for us", PM Abbas tells Hamas' (Haaretz.com:June 27, 2003),
quoted from EvilOz (The Iterative Record)
and:
"The very first act of the new Bush administration was to have a Protestant Evangelist minister officially dedicate the inauguration to Jesus Christ, whom he declared to be 'our savior.' Invoking 'the Father, the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ' and 'the Holy Spirit,' Billy Graham's son, the man selected by President George W. Bush to bless his presidency, excluded the tens of millions of Americans who are Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, Unitarians, agnostics, and atheists from his blessing by his particularistic and parochial language.
"The plain message conveyed by the new administration is that George W. Bush's America is a Christian nation and that non-Christians are welcome into the tent so long as they agree to accept their status as a tolerated minority rather than as fully equal citizens. In effect, Bush is saying: 'This is our home, and in our home we pray to Jesus as our savior. If you want to be a guest in our home, you must accept the way we pray.' "
Alan M. Dershowitz, in "Bush Starts Off by Defying the the Constitution," Los Angeles Times, January 24, 2001
Thanks again to Positive atheism, keeping a watchful eye on the merger of church and state.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
mrmitchell
|
|
quote:
Islam seems very backwards and I don't think it's surprising that it scares or disgusts many Westerners. |
It doesn't. I know it doesn't. I pray for us all that it doesn't.
It only seems that it scares so many because the ignorant ones are always the loudest.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
molly bloom
|
|
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
The greatest evil about Islam IMO is its concept of family honour etc and how women are treated.
It's medievil
Everyday run-of-the-mill Christians wouldn't force their kids to marry someone or wear burkas or disown (or sometimes kill) their daughters if they have premarital sex.
Islam seems very backwards and I don't think it's surprising that it scares or disgusts many Westerners. |
The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.
Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992
N.O.W. (the American National Organisation of Women)
is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian.
Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 3, 1997
(none of theNational Organisation for Women's public statements have this in their text)
[Planned Parenthood]... is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism -- everything that the Bible condemns.
Pat Robertson The 700 Club television program, April 9, 1991
I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either.
Pat Robertson
The 700 Club television program, May 28, 1993
God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them."
Pat Robertson, reciting a passage from I Timothy in his book, Bring It On, quoted from Nicholas D. Kristof, "Peter, Paul, Mary ... and God" (The New York Times: February 28, 2004)
I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period.
Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 8, 1992
Pat Robertson you will be stunned to learn, is a modern day Christian.
Roger de Caen, French monk (not a modern day one, but it is good to see the antecedents of Robertson's line of thought) :
'If her bowels and flesh were cut open you would see what filth is covered by her white skin. If a fine crimson cloth covered a pile of foul dung, would anyone be foolish enough to love the dung because of it? There is no plague which monks should dread worse than woman: the soul's death.'
St. John Chrysostom:
'The woman taught once and ruined all. On that account...let her not teach.'
The Christian Bible:
'Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.'
I Timothy, 2:12
'Woman is naturally carnal and sensuous...the irrational half of MANkind.'
Methodius, who had clearly never been to a football match or to a Hooter's Bar with Pekka.
'Woman is the devil's gateway...a scorpion's dart.'
'Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.'
St. Jerome
'Woman pollutes the body,drains the resources, kills the soul, uproots the strength, blinds the eye, and embitters the voice.'
Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher, who didn't seem to be allowing much time for woman to get any housework done.
And let's include the male Jews of the early Russian Pale of Settlement, one of whose prayers went:
'Lord I thank thee that thou has not made me a woman.'*
But let's leave the last word with Tertullian, that staunch emancipator of women:
'Let women remember that they are of the sex of Eve, who ruined mankind; and let them therefore repair this ignominy by living rather in dust than in splendour.'
Perhaps the dust is a reference to the housework that isn't getting done while the women are doing all the things Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher says they spend their time doing, or being.
*Ebenezer Henderson, 'Biblical Researches and Travels in Russia', publ. 1826
Yeah, that Islam sho'nuff be mediaeval.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Gangerolf
|
 |
huuhh
May 2001
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.
Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992
N.O.W. (the American National Organisation of Women)
is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian.
Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 3, 1997
(none of theNational Organisation for Women's public statements have this in their text)
[Planned Parenthood]... is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism -- everything that the Bible condemns.
Pat Robertson The 700 Club television program, April 9, 1991
I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either.
Pat Robertson
The 700 Club television program, May 28, 1993
God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them."
Pat Robertson, reciting a passage from I Timothy in his book, Bring It On, quoted from Nicholas D. Kristof, "Peter, Paul, Mary ... and God" (The New York Times: February 28, 2004)
I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period.
Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 8, 1992
Pat Robertson you will be stunned to learn, is a modern day Christian.
Roger de Caen, French monk (not a modern day one, but it is good to see the antecedents of Robertson's line of thought) :
'If her bowels and flesh were cut open you would see what filth is covered by her white skin. If a fine crimson cloth covered a pile of foul dung, would anyone be foolish enough to love the dung because of it? There is no plague which monks should dread worse than woman: the soul's death.'
St. John Chrysostom:
'The woman taught once and ruined all. On that account...let her not teach.'
The Christian Bible:
'Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.'
I Timothy, 2:12
'Woman is naturally carnal and sensuous...the irrational half of MANkind.'
Methodius, who had clearly never been to a football match or to a Hooter's Bar with Pekka.
'Woman is the devil's gateway...a scorpion's dart.'
'Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.'
St. Jerome
'Woman pollutes the body,drains the resources, kills the soul, uproots the strength, blinds the eye, and embitters the voice.'
Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher, who didn't seem to be allowing much time for woman to get any housework done.
And let's include the male Jews of the early Russian Pale of Settlement, one of whose prayers went:
'Lord I thank thee that thou has not made me a woman.'*
But let's leave the last word with Tertullian, that staunch emancipator of women:
'Let women remember that they are of the sex of Eve, who ruined mankind; and let them therefore repair this ignominy by living rather in dust than in splendour.'
Perhaps the dust is a reference to the housework that isn't getting done while the women are doing all the things Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher says they spend their time doing, or being.
*Ebenezer Henderson, 'Biblical Researches and Travels in Russia', publ. 1826
Yeah, that Islam sho'nuff be mediaeval. |
These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ramo
|
 |
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:35
|
|
quote:
These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior. |
As I've pointed out in countless other threads like this, would that be why the three largest Muslim countries (Indonesia, Pakistan, and Bangladesh) have had women heads of state, while the three largest Christian countries (the US, Brazil, and Mexico) have not?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
molly bloom
|
|
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior. |
You mean in Pakistan where Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister and in Bangla Desh where the two main political parties are headed by women?
'Bangladesh's Prime Minister, Sheikh Hasina is nearing the completion of her five year term in the office. And the prime minister who preceded her, was also a woman, Ms. Khaleda Zia. She is now the leader of the opposition in the parliament. She replaced Sheikh Hasina in the same position.'
http://alochona.org/magazine/2001/october/views.htm
Both Muslim countries.
World's most populous Muslim country- Indonesia. Head of state- Megawati Sukarnoputri, that well-known female impersonator.
'Megawati Sukarnoputri (1947- ), president of Indonesia (2001- ) and leader of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P), who as vice president (1999-2001) replaced deposed president Abdurrahman Wahid.
Born in Yogyakarta, Megawati is the second child and eldest daughter of Indonesia’s founding president, Sukarno. '
http://www.famousmuslims.com/Megawa...ukarnoputri.htm
In many cases what you're referring to is the pre-existing culture that was there before Islam.
Which is not to say that aspects of Islam do not strike me as irrational and mediaeval, but then I could say the same about any faith whose adherents kill other people for something I don't believe exists.
In many Christian countries, a woman did not have the legal right to exercise control over herself, or own property separately from her husband and in her own name, until the latter half of the nineteenth century.
She had previously been considered either her parents' 'property' or in law, the chattel of her husband if she married- and the word chattel, which means a moveable possession or slave, comes from the same root as cattle.
chat·tel ( P ) Pronunciation Key (chtl)
n.
Law. An article of movable personal property.
A slave.
[Middle English chatel, movable property, from Old French, from Medieval Latin capitle. See cattle.]
That's a long time waiting for emancipation from the founding days of Christianity, don't you think?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
mrmitchell
|
|
quote:
mrmitchell , it doesn't what? Seem backwards or scare people? |
I meant scare people, but it's not as backwards as it's made out either...I actually own a goddamn copy of the Koran, something PA probably can't attest to, and I try to read a little of all these things.
For being written in ~600AD, it was probably "ahead of the times".
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:35.
Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
26-07-2004 05:41
. The greatest evil about Islam IMO is its concept of family honour etc and how women are treated. It's medievil (I misspelled that on purpose. Clever, eh?). 
|