29-07-2004 05:07									#91
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The death tax is double taxiation... period. They have already taken their fair share. It's that simple.

	29-07-2004 05:08									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I live to provide for my family. I want my kids to have it even better than I did. I want them to succeed in life and be happy.

No one wants your kids to suffer from want, but everyone should be able to succeed and be happy though, not just your family. If you say people are capable of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and accomplishing anything then they don't need inheretence.

	29-07-2004 05:09									#93
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I agree with my more fiscally conservative counterparts like Imran and The Ming on this one. The Death tax is wrong.

Also, methinks Geronimo must not have kids.

	29-07-2004 05:09									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The death tax is double taxiation... period. They have already taken their fair share. It's that simple.

No it isn't. Everybody should start from Go.

I don't want any of my parents' money when they die.

	29-07-2004 05:11									#95
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KH: Well, I guess you don't believe in Life Insurance either. The only difference between the two is that the money in inheretance is already in the family.

	29-07-2004 05:12									#96
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No it isn't. Everybody should start from Go. I don't want any of my parents' money when they die.

I already pissed every wealthy person off in my family. I get squat.

	29-07-2004 05:12									#97
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No, I don't believe in life insurance except to cover any costs associated with death and (if the children are still minors) to cover the cost of raising them.

	29-07-2004 05:14									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious No one wants your kids to suffer from want, but everyone should be able to succeed and be happy though, not just your family. If you say people are capable of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and accomplishing anything then they don't need inheretence.

It's my money... not some other families. Again, I have already paid the taxes on it... and the government can do what it want's with what they have already taken.

To see families have to sell farms that have been in the family for generations is pure crap. To watch a family sell the family business because of a death is equally bad.

Everybody has the right to be able to succeed and be happy... all power to them. But my family doesn't deserve to lose everything we have built together just because I die.

	29-07-2004 05:15									#99
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No, I don't believe in life insurance except to cover any costs associated with death and (if the children are still minors) to cover the cost of raising them.

Is that what life insurance is for?

	29-07-2004 05:16									#100
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse And what if you live in the house for thirty years, letting it run into disrepair?

You will have been paying taxes on the ownership of the property - such as council taxes and rates - for those 30 years. You will also be wantonly devaluing your assets worth and eroding the benefit you could have made. People shouldn't be taxed for losing money. At any rate the same result could be from the house price falling as part of an areas natural trend. The cause of the asset devaluation is not really the issue, its the wealth generated from the asset by whatever cause that is the central issue for gains taxes.

quote: Why shouldn't you be taxed at the acquisition value instead of the value at sale?

For one valuation becomes a problem. If you make a sale then the figure value is quite clear - the received gain can be clearly shown. If you do not make a subsequent sale then you should be subject to the user taxes that generally go with the asset, and you are not making any benefit from the asset value without a sale.

Also, at what time do you value the assets for acquisition purposes - say you inherit a volatile asset such as shares, what value do you give them - the value at the time of death, the value at the time the will is being read, the value at the time the shares are received, or some other arbitrary time.

	29-07-2004 05:17									#101
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No, life insurance is there to provide a motive in every mystery story ever written.

	29-07-2004 05:17									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The death tax is double taxiation... period. They have already taken their fair share. It's that simple.

Who cares if the government taxes money 2 times or 150 times? Which is better getting taxed 5 times for 1% of your income or 1 time for 50% of your income? obviously the number of times you are taxed matters only in as much as it is inconvenient to deal with more paperwork that way. Luckily I won't be dying very often so this tax shouldn't trouble me with extra paperwork very often.

	29-07-2004 05:17									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Everybody has the right to be able to succeed and be happy... all power to them.

Apparently they don't have an equal right though.

	29-07-2004 05:19									#104
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No, life insurance is there to provide a motive in every mystery story ever written.

That's one of the reasons that I didn't renew mine, even though my wife insisted.

	29-07-2004 05:19									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin You will have been paying taxes on the ownership of the property - such as council taxes and rates - for those 30 years. You will also be wantonly devaluing your assets worth and eroding the benefit you could have made. People shouldn't be taxed for losing money.

Then why could I not claim a deduction on devaluation on property (not used for business purposes) I bought with earned income?[/quote]

	29-07-2004 05:21									#106
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous I agree with my more fiscally conservative counterparts like Imran and The Ming on this one. The Death tax is wrong. Also, methinks Geronimo must not have kids.

I plan to have kids, I plan to spoil them rotten and have a good life insurance policy so they aren't SOL if I croak early. However I want them to earn their wealth and not get it as a family windfall.

I despise nepotism in any intrusion it makes in the economy or politics.

	29-07-2004 05:21									#107
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Dauphin:

If you use the asset then you are responsible for its devaluation. You thus need to pay income tax on it as soon as you acquire it. Just like if I won a car tomorrow on Wheel of Fortune I'd have to pay taxes on it.

	29-07-2004 05:22									#108
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Then why could I not claim a deduction on devaluation on property (not used for business purposes) I bought with earned income?

[/QUOTE]

If its for personal use, its a moot point anyway as its not subject to Capital Gains.

	29-07-2004 05:24									#109
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The income I purchased it with was subject to income tax though.

	29-07-2004 05:24									#110
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Dauphin: If you use the asset then you are responsible for its devaluation. You thus need to pay income tax on it as soon as you acquire it. Just like if I won a car tomorrow on Wheel of Fortune I'd have to pay taxes on it.

Game prizes and other gambling wins are not subject to income tac in the UK either.

	29-07-2004 05:25									#111
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So why can I inherit a (let's say) car and never pay taxes on it (since I run it into the ground) but if I inherited cash and bought a car with it I'd have to pay taxes both on the money and sales tax on the car?

	29-07-2004 05:27									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin Game prizes and other gambling wins are not subject to income tac in the UK either.

They are here, AFAIK.

In Canada the State-run gaming wins are not subject to taxes because they're...well, they're run by the State.

But if you win a giveaway contest then your win is subject to income tax.

	29-07-2004 05:27									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I plan to have kids, I plan to spoil them rotten and have a good life insurance policy so they aren't SOL if I croak early. However I want them to earn their wealth and not get it as a family windfall. I despise nepotism in any intrusion it makes in the economy or politics.

So no, you don't have kids.

	29-07-2004 05:28									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Apparently they don't have an equal right though.

Sure they do... they had the same chance of being born to hard working rich parents as anybody else... the chances of having rich or poor parents are the same for eveybody

But seriously... I have no problem with being taxed and having that money help people who need it. I also give money to charities, as well as my free time... I am pissed at the how much of that money is wasted through inefficient welfare systems... and how welfare systems are not set up to help people help themselves, but in most cases, to just keep people in the system forever...

I think govenment should provide basic services for all... however, we aren't a socialist country. My family shouldn't suffer in an economic fashion just because I die. Families shouldn't have to sell their property, farms, business, possesions, just because one member dies...

	29-07-2004 05:31									#115
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So why can I inherit a (let's say) car and never pay taxes on it (since I run it into the ground) but if I inherited cash and bought a car with it I'd have to pay taxes both on the money and sales tax on the car?

If you inherited the car then the equivalent amount of sales taxes would have been paid by the previous owner who gifted you. Also sales taxes tend to be a function of sales cost, and in this case the sales cost to you is $nil, and hence the tax bill is $nil.

If you run the car into the ground you are blowing your cash benefit that could have been used on investing in another asset. Your choice really.

	29-07-2004 05:32									#116
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quote: My family shouldn't suffer in an economic fashion just because I die.

If your children are relying on you as a source of income when you die at a (hopefully) ripe old age then something is wrong anyway.

	29-07-2004 05:34									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I am pissed at the how much of that money is wasted through inefficient welfare systems... and how welfare systems are not set up to help people help themselves, but in most cases, to just keep people in the system forever...

There have been a lot of changes to the welfare system over the years to help people get off of it. Unfortunately, the jobs that they get when they get off of it keep them poor. The problem with welfare is that it is seriously underfunded and the social workers aren't of the best quality, because their pay is so low.

quote: Originally posted by Ming I think govenment should provide basic services for all... however, we aren't a socialist country. My family shouldn't suffer in an economic fashion just because I die. Families shouldn't have to sell their property, farms, business, possesions, just because one member dies...

I don't want families to lose family things either. I'm not for the death tax per se, but I am for equality.

	29-07-2004 05:36									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin If you inherited the car then sales taxes would have been paid by the previous owner who gifted you. Also sales taxes tend to be a function of sales cost, and in this case the sales cost to you is $nil, and hence the tax bill is $nil. If you run the car into the ground you are blowing your cash benefit that could have been used on investing in another asset. Your choice really.

No, because I'm not buying another car that I would have.

So I'm never taxed on the car, even though I saw a net gain from it (without inheriting the car I would have spent 15000$, so I'm up 15000$ on the deal and I've not been charged any tax)

It's the heir's responsibility to utilise his inheritance to the fullest. The State should simply take its share of the inheritance based on its fair market value.

	29-07-2004 05:37									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I made 40k when I lived in Ventura, CA. My rent was $1255 and I was paying on my college loan. I would say that I was barely above the poverty line with a family of three. Of course, I owned a car and things like that. I needed a car to get to work though. Things are expensive. 30k is only 'adequate' in some places, but you won't have any savings, and you really need savings in a capitalist economy.

See this is what I expected. If you honestly think 40k is "barely above the poverty line" you are seriously out of touch with reality.

Real poverty is not being able to afford electricity, to live in a truly dilapidated shack, and to go hungry on many nights. That is what being poor is and should mean.

	29-07-2004 05:39									#120
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I refer you back to my dictionary.com post

Being poor has never meant that you were necessarily starving

SImply that you don't have very much wealth.