29-07-2004 05:41									#121
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Real poverty is not being able to afford electricity, to live in a truly dilapidated shack, and to go hungry on many nights. That is what being poor is and should mean.

Your standards are pretty low. Anyway, that's how poverty is defined in the dictionary and used properly.

	29-07-2004 05:45									#122
	Remove this text

Do Libertarians always seek to redefine terms to their liking?

I've run into quite a few cases of that over the years...

	29-07-2004 05:47									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I don't want families to lose family things either. I'm not for the death tax per se, but I am for equality.

Then I repeat, this isn't a socialist country. That's not how we do it. Fair... maybe not... but our system is based on you being able to earn a better life for youself by working hard and smart... not "everybody gets the same" no matter how hard you work or how lazy you are.

Again... I see no problem with making sure people are fed, have a place to live, and can get a basic education... and get help so that they can help themselves... but, I don't believe they should be handed the same thing I have worked hard to get, and get it for free... now that's what is not FAIR!

	29-07-2004 05:54									#124
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ming That's not how we do it. Fair... maybe not... but our system is based on you being able to earn a better life for youself by working hard and smart... not "everybody gets the same" no matter how hard you work or how lazy you are.

I think more people want fair than you think. Mostly they are satisfied because they are personally able to earn a decent living. They know there are others who can't, but they aren't sure what they can do about it. They also know the system is unfair, but they don't know what to do about that either. That's how you get people disagreeing about things and thinking that the only solution to problems is making other people make sacrifices.

	29-07-2004 05:56									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The State should simply take its share of the inheritance based on its fair market value.

How do you get to the fair market value? At what time do you consider the transfer of assets to occur? How do you deal with assets with value volatility or that are difficult to value?

A system that goes by a definable value is much more transparent and easier to manage.

	29-07-2004 06:00									#126
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Do Libertarians always seek to redefine terms to their liking? I've run into quite a few cases of that over the years...

More like redefining terms back to reality. It is bizarre how someone with a big screen TV, two cars, lots of DVDs, video games, etc, etc, etc is considered poor. It just really throws the whole discussion out of whack when a person who makes $40,000 is considered poor.

Do we all need a weekend condo in the alps to be considered middle class then? How on earth can one have a discussion like this when this is someone's material compass?

	29-07-2004 06:02									#127
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So I'm never taxed on the car, even though I saw a net gain from it (without inheriting the car I would have spent 15000$, so I'm up 15000$ on the deal and I've not been charged any tax)

The sale tax on the car is paid by the previous owner. You would get $15,000 cash or you would get a car worth $15,000 inclusive of sales tax (which they would have spent the $15,000 on).

The scenario can also work the other way, if you want to sell the car you inherited to get the cash equivalent back you have to pay the gains tax.

	29-07-2004 06:06									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

According to dictionary.com poor is "Having little or no wealth and few or no possessions. "

I don't think someone who makes $40,000 or even $10,000 a year counts as poor by the dictionary definition, but y'all seem determined to make that the case.

	29-07-2004 06:11									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs But the wealthiest do so much for this country! Their contributions to society are beyond measure! Of course they deserve to pay the least in taxes.

The least?

Hell, they pay more as a percentage and as a whole!

	29-07-2004 06:14									#130
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP According to dictionary.com poor is "Having little or no wealth and few or no possessions. " I don't think someone who makes $40,000 or even $10,000 a year counts as poor by the dictionary definition, but y'all seem determined to make that the case.

The definition describes me to a T. I don't think it's a good definition though, because it doesn't mention income. If you waste all your income but you still have adequate (or more in this case) consumption, you aren't poor. Poverty is different then poor.

	29-07-2004 06:14									#131
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious How rich are you? You are incredibly out of touch with mainstream America.

Compared to the third world, dumbass.

	29-07-2004 06:18									#132
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Compared to the third world, dumbass.

Yes, he's out of touch with mainstream America, even compared to the third world. So are you.

	29-07-2004 06:19									#133
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dauphin The sale tax on the car is paid by the previous owner. You would get $15,000 cash or you would get a car worth $15,000 inclusive of sales tax (which they would have spent the $15,000 on). The scenario can also work the other way, if you want to sell the car you inherited to get the cash equivalent back you have to pay the gains tax.

What? I'm no longer talking about sales tax; I'm talking about THE INCOME TAX I PAYED ON THE 15000 PRIOR TO PURCHASING THE CAR

	29-07-2004 06:19									#134
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

From a pragmatic perspective, I think that taxing the rich, and then using the money to create various programs to promote further economic development is probably the most effective way to run things in a capitalist society such as ours.

	29-07-2004 06:20									#135
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Tax gifts at the same rate.

Then you could "employ" the person with a very high salary for very little work.

	29-07-2004 06:21									#136
	Increase Your PM Length

See my post regarding tax evasion.

	29-07-2004 06:23									#137
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yes, he's out of touch with mainstream America, even compared to the third world. So are you.

I think i'm more in touch with mainstream america than most of you, and I don't think of them as poor.

	29-07-2004 06:23									#138
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

BC:

Why is it that if I inherit 15000$ and buy a car with it then I should be taxed on the 15000$ as earned income, whereas if I inherit the same car I am not taxed at all (assuming I use it for personal reasons until it is junk).

	29-07-2004 06:24									#139
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The definition describes me to a T. I don't think it's a good definition though, because it doesn't mention income. If you waste all your income but you still have adequate (or more in this case) consumption, you aren't poor. Poverty is different then poor.

So you make $40,000 a year and you say you have little to no possessions?

	29-07-2004 06:25									#140
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"little" is a relative term

	29-07-2004 06:26									#141
	Support Apolyton

As are poor and poverty.

	29-07-2004 06:26									#142
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: No it isn't. Everybody should start from Go.

So work your butt off, and give money to your kids. Then your family gets all the benefits of inheritance.

If people are wise enough to save for future generations, that wisdom ought to be rewarded rather than taxed.

	29-07-2004 06:28									#143
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP So you make $40,000 a year and you say you have little to no possessions?

Very little. The car wasn't paid for, and I had to return it to the person I was buying it from.

	29-07-2004 06:29									#144
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Dauphin Game prizes and other gambling wins are not subject to income tac in the UK either.

They're actually taxed higher than average, IIRC, in the US.

	29-07-2004 06:30									#145
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse "little" is a relative term

See that's the problem. I'm trying to get to some more definite terms, cause everything is relative here. If someone's definition of "little to no possessions" means only one big screen tv, less than 30 dvds, and an emachine or peoplepc instead of a new Dell, then.... I don't know how we can have this discussion in good faith.

	29-07-2004 06:30									#146
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What kind of car?

	29-07-2004 06:30									#147
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi So work your butt off, and give money to your kids. Then your family gets all the benefits of inheritance. If people are wise enough to save for future generations, that wisdom ought to be rewarded rather than taxed.

Your kids should have to work too. That's all we're saying. People should have to work for their benefits.

	29-07-2004 06:32									#148
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP See that's the problem. I'm trying to get to some more definite terms, cause everything is relative here.

That's the nature of the words you're using.

If you want to say "destitute" then you can get closer to absolute terms.

You're applying an objectivity to words which have never been objective.

	29-07-2004 06:32									#149
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse See my post regarding tax evasion.

How are you going to determine that?

	29-07-2004 06:32									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP What kind of car?

Honda Civic