29-07-2004 23:09									#1
	Turn 223: 1080 AD Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

defense plan, first iteration. Comments please!


Start

- GoW sends rubber, accepted. Phew, that was the first thing we needed

- RP sends WM. Send our WM. Can't send horses.

- EotS builds rifle, starts inf

- pollution strikes Hurricane... sigh... always when you least need it If it was a DD build, it was no problem, but the transport won't be speeded up next turn. Will need to compensate elsewhere.

- Cyclone builds worker, starts explorer. A bit strange to build a worker that will get added to the same city, but hey

- Bolderberg builds art. Starts DD

- Tempest builds rifle. Starts inf

- Typhoon builds DD. Starts DD

- Monsoon builds art. Starts inf

- OG builds art. Starts DD

- WW builds art. Starts inf

- WoC builds carrier. Starts sub.


- 1961 gold, 70%, 690 bpt, -121 gpt. (Mass prod in 2 of 4) 2659/3360 beakers collected.
Strange. The calculation doesn't fit, I'm missing 11 beakers somewhere...

tech cost

shortrushes
Hurricane set to DD. knight disbanded. 5 shields rushed. set to Carrier

forces
(- 7 knights, 12 MI, 2 galley)
- 14 art
- 37 workers (+0/turn)
- 1 settlers (+.2/turn)
- 76 rifle (+0/turn)
- 0 tanks (+ /turn)
- 12 galleon
- 8 destroyer (+/turn)
- 9 transports (+/turn)
- 1 carrier

- Strong in strength to GoW, average to ND and to Lego. This is before upgrading any infs

I hope anyone is willing to go through the trouble of finding out how many units Lego has (should only be a rough guess) With our rifles, we just turned average. I'm now starting to upgrade them (3 at the time), in our red cities first.

after 24 upgrades to infs, we turn strong to ND

after 42 upgrades, we're still average to Lego. Willlfort them next turn, and upgrade the rest to see how we're doing.


Moves
In general, the specific worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.

- pollution control

- irr Hurricane 2, 3

- mine Cyclone 7

- 2 workers added to Cyclone

- RP didn't move off their hill, so it has no fort.
- rest of our workers skipped turn.


in total, 5 more forests remain. Our workers are becoming obsolete, everything is done. Radio in ~7 turns, after which we'll convert them to radar towers


- Horatio now has 2 destroyers next to it (skipped turn). We also spotted a Lego transport right off their coast. They are changing their pickets, it seems, another 2 ironclads (waste of good shields) moves into view.
- DD in Inchoff forts
- D from Typhoon automoves towards Hurricane
- galley arrived at its spot near Pica. automoves the galleon present there towards Sufa
- carrier automoves towards Blizzard
- I'm forting the pickets again, instead of sentrying... I don't like it that when one wakes, I can't spot a number of tiles anymore.


workforce shuffles
- Cyclone: damn. one thing I didn't check last turn, and of course it happens: explorers don't get the mob bonus! We can't get Cyclone to 20 spt without it... maybe Inchoff is 20 spt once the market completes, in the mean time I'm building one here, at 2 turns... afterwards it's probably going to be a unit of some sorts.
One citizen set to taxman
further, gives game to BB, takes mined plain from EotS, gives all bonus grass and a wheat to Tornado.
- Other cities compensate (EotS takes irr plain from BB)

- Typhoon gives one grass to Cyclone, set to subs (50 spt)

- Monsoon gives hill to WW. Needs to retake it next turn.
- WW takes hill, instead of sea. next turn sea, turn after hill again. In total, it cuts the eta of the tank-1 (but costs 2 food, and as it is at a 3-turn cycle, and Monsoon at a 2-turn cycle, will have to wait a little before we can do it again)

- Elipolis gives grass to Inchon gets coast instead
- WoC gives grass to Inchon. Will probably change to Inchoff next turn, but that was already perfectly timed on the market

- SA gives grass to D-ville. Takes grass from Blizzard
- D-ville loses coast
- Blizzard takes coast

- Blizzard gives desert to SS, takes coast instead
- SS on schedule for 5-turn settler, by swapping with mountain. Next turn, take back mountain


Current Builds
long term plans for our cities

Eli : catyhedral in 2
Inchon : aqua in 7
WoC : sub in 1
Inchoff : market in 1. (explorers next?)
D-ville : tank in 1
Santa Ana : Battlefield Medicine in 2. (Tanks next)
Blizzard : destroyer in 1. (destroyer next)
Monsoon : tank in 2
Arashi : inf in 1
WW : tank in 3
Tempest : tank in 1
SS: settler in 3
Hurricane : Carrier in 1. I hope I was correct in calculating: I didn't change before mob. It could be that I'm one shield short (should have 1 over)
OG : DD in 4
EotS : tank in 1
Bolderberg : DD in 2
Cyclone: explorer in 2 (see above for explanation)
Tornado : transport in 1
Typhoon : sub in 2
Sufa : market in 89

Other

- Lego got SM. I'm sending it to ND, RP, and to GoW.

Not a bad move from Lego, as they can be sure MT will devaluate (we need to send it to GoW sometime soon)

- CH: message to GoW (when you get back ) please: Lego going for AT? we will delay MT for as long as possible, notify us when you need it
oh, and if they can spare any gold (they still owe us 1k5), it would be welcome, as we're upgrading our defenses right now!

- in F11, we're #3 in production at 701 Megatons. (last turn 697) before Mob (and before irr near Hurricane: turned 693). Also, when putting our slider down, we were passed by ND in GNP as well, we're currently only 4th. And it's not so close either, as productivity is also 4th.

after mob, we're at 866 (it's been 900 as well, when shuffling builds and tiles). total production back in 3rd place (1831)

- this was one of the longest turns I played, even with the preparation. Took over 3 hours!

Next Turn
- when discovering MT, set all inf builds to tanks... except for the Arashi one (which will only net 90 shields)

- tweak terrain around Monsoon

DeepO

	31-07-2004 20:03									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Good work DeepO

I sent a message to GoW - but didn't press about the money yet (they'd already played their turn last night) - I'll mention that when he's indicated when they want Mot Trans and the pre-reqs.

I'll do the fine check on when our upgrades take us above ND.

	31-07-2004 20:07									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I wonder if Lego won't bother with Marines, and go straight for MT and Radio. Battleships, Carriers and Subs don't seem priorities.

	31-07-2004 20:18									#4
	Put an end to popups!

wouldn't they have to get marines soon? Until we know they have that, all we need is a sea wall against them.

Unless they are in full shell mode trying to outlast and win by UN and Space Ship.

	31-07-2004 20:57									#5
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Odd. It took me 26 upgrades to get stronger than ND.

	31-07-2004 20:57									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Amp is optional and they do not have to do it at all.

	31-07-2004 21:00									#7
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If they don't plan to attack anyone, they'd probably rather get Mot Trans and Radio first.

Sure, it can be argued that them having Marines forces us to be more defensive, but If I were them I'd prioritise Radio (2 defensive improvements) and Tanks over Marines. We've talked about hitting them before they have too many tanks, but there may be radar and Civil Defence to contend with.

	02-08-2004 03:41									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Odd. It took me 26 upgrades to get stronger than ND.

Not that odd, it depends on which upgrades you started with. Upgrades in metros, or on hills are worth more then in cities...

We don't need a precise guess either, just an idea. after 26 upgrades, we've got 26 infs, 50 rifles. a rifle is worth roughly 2/3 of a inf, so ND has roughly 48 infs (our strength being 60 infs, minus 25%). or equavalent. Seeing the size of their empire, that's low... even if you denote it in rifles, 72 rifles are less then 3 units per city.

DeepO

	02-08-2004 04:41									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

MZ recently said they're starting to build units, so they've probably been on infrastructure for a while.

	03-08-2004 00:55									#10
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Replay report. Special attention needs to go to setting all unit cities to units before mobilizing, even if they currently are producing transports. Cyclone will be set to a unit before mobilizing (instead of the explorer). This to compensate a little for the bug.

I've been thinking on it, and we can compensate without loss, in case we declare war on RP, and offer them peace with furs. They accept at their start of the turn, and won't suffer too many ill effects (maximally only the lux in their first cities, before something completes). This will stop mobilisation... But we should test when exactly this happens, and if we are given the choice to stay in mob once they accept peace.

If not (which I assume), we can only do this the turns before we discover a tech. We need to have access to F1, to remobilize before production, which is only possible when discovering a tech. So, this means that the cities which in turn 224 will not be on a unit build, will be denied the bonus until turn 229.

I'm thinking on changing the cathedral in Eli to a unit, Not ideal as I would have preferred the cath, but otherwise we loose to much. SA is our biggest loss...


-------------------

defense plan, first iteration. Comments please!


Start

- GoW sends rubber, accepted.

- RP sends WM. Send our WM. Can't send horses.

- EotS builds art, starts inf

- pollution strikes Hurricane... sigh... always when you least need it If it was a DD build, it was no problem, but the transport won't be speeded up next turn. Will need to compensate elsewhere.

- Cyclone builds worker, starts inf. Will change to explorer after mob.

- Bolderberg builds art. Starts DD

- Tempest builds art. Starts inf

- Typhoon builds DD. Starts DD

- Monsoon builds art. Starts inf

- OG builds art. Starts DD

- WW builds art. Starts inf

- WoC builds carrier. Starts sub.


- 1961 gold, 70%, 690 bpt, -121 gpt. (Mass prod in 2 of 4) 2659/3360 beakers collected.
Strange. The calculation doesn't fit, I'm missing 11 beakers somewhere...

tech cost

shortrushes
Hurricane set to DD. knight disbanded. 5 shields rushed. set to Carrier

forces
(- 6 knights, 12 MI, 2 galley)
- 14 art
- 37 workers (+0/turn)
- 1 settlers (+.2/turn)
- 24 rifle (+0/turn)
- 52 infs
- 0 tanks (+ /turn)
- 12 galleon
- 8 destroyer (+/turn)
- 9 transports (+/turn)
- 1 carrier

- Strong in strength to GoW, and to ND, average to Lego.

change since last time
- Set all cities to units before mob. This includes Hurricane, Elipolis, and Cyclone.
mobbing now gives the expected results.

- set Cyclone to an explorer (which is cheating, but only as compensation for the cities that either can't finish what they were supposed to, or can't change because their builds end either next turn, or the one thereafter.)

after mob, I set Cyclone back to an explorer... the bug doesn't happen here? We do not receive any bonus, so the bug only disadvantages us, and won't advantage us. Too bad, no compensation

Moves
In general, the specific worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.

- pollution control

- irr Hurricane 2, 3

- mine Cyclone 7

- 2 workers added to Cyclone

- irr Tempest 23

- RP didn't move off their hill, so it has no fort.
- rest of our workers skipped turn.


in total, 5 more forests remain. Our workers are becoming obsolete, everything is done. Radio in ~7 turns, after which we'll convert them to radar towers


- Horatio now has 2 destroyers next to it (skipped turn). We also spotted a Lego transport right off their coast. They are changing their pickets, it seems, another 2 ironclads (waste of good shields) moves into view.
- DD in Inchoff forts
- D from Typhoon automoves towards Hurricane
- galley arrived at its spot near Pica. automoves the galleon present there towards Sufa
- carrier automoves towards Blizzard
- I'm forting the pickets again, instead of sentrying... I don't like it that when one wakes, I can't spot a number of tiles anymore.


workforce shuffles
- Cyclone:
One citizen set to taxman
further, gives game to BB, takes mined plain from EotS, gives all bonus grass and a wheat to Tornado.
- Other cities compensate (EotS takes irr plain from BB)

- Tornado gives one grass to Sufa

- Typhoon gives one grass to Cyclone, set to subs (50 spt)

- Monsoon gives hill to WW. Needs to retake it next turn.
- WW takes hill, instead of sea. next turn sea, turn after hill again. In total, it cuts the eta of the tank-1 (but costs 2 food, and as it is at a 3-turn cycle, and Monsoon at a 2-turn cycle, will have to wait a little before we can do it again)

- Elipolis gives grass to Inchon gets coast instead
- WoC gives grass to Inchon. Will probably change to Inchoff next turn, but that was already perfectly timed on the market

- SA gives grass to D-ville. Takes grass from Blizzard
- D-ville loses coast
- Blizzard takes coast

- Blizzard gives desert to SS, takes coast instead
- SS on schedule for 5-turn settler, by swapping with mountain. Next turn, take back mountain


Current Builds
long term plans for our cities

Eli : inf in 2
Inchon : aqua in 7
WoC : sub in 1
Inchoff : market in 1. (explorers next?)
D-ville : tank in 1
Santa Ana : Battlefield Medicine in 2. (Tanks next)
Blizzard : destroyer in 1. (destroyer next)
Monsoon : tank in 2
Arashi : inf in 1
WW : tank in 3
Tempest : tank in 1
SS: settler in 4
Hurricane : Carrier in 1.
OG : DD in 4
EotS : tank in 1
Bolderberg : DD in 2
Cyclone: explorer in 2
Tornado : transport in 1 (DD next)
Typhoon : sub in 2
Sufa : market in 30

Other

- Lego got SM. I'm sending it to ND, RP, and to GoW.

Not a bad move from Lego, as they can be sure MT will devaluate (we need to send it to GoW sometime soon)


- in F11, we're #3 in production at 701 Megatons. (last turn 697) before Mob (and before irr near Hurricane: turned 693). Also, when putting our slider down, we were passed by ND in GNP as well, we're currently only 4th. And it's not so close either, as productivity is also 4th.

after mob, we're at 901. total production back in 2nd place (1862) #3 is very close

Next Turn
- when discovering MT, set all inf builds to tanks... except for the Arashi one (which will only net 90 shields)

- tweak terrain around Monsoon

DeepO