05-10-2004 17:05									#361
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The forums is set up here

The password is:

warlock

Post ideas on what categories we need and I'll add them

I also sent the following message to Chaos Theory:

quote: Text of Googlie e-mail to Chaos Theory CT: Our wandering rover has met your damaged mindworm at co-ordinates 40:50 (ours) and 41:51 (yours) I have asked Drogue/Method for a time extension to allow us to exchange ambassadorial accreditations, etc I have also set up a private forum for our 2 factions at: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/password...d.cfm?id=617927 and the password is: warlock Cheers

	05-10-2004 17:23									#362
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Following sent to Drogue (who is getting his internet acces set up, I know. I don't have method's e-mail so will have to PM him):

quote: text of e-mail to Drogue requesting a time extension for the Sparta 2140 turn Reason: we have met the Gaians, and wish some time to sort out who our ambassadors are, offer treaties and trades, etc. It'd be appreciated (if the extension is granted) that the reason not be divulged to the other teams G.

	05-10-2004 17:31									#364
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Following was sent to Method:

quote: Text of message PM'd and e-mailed to Method M: We have met the Gaians (see our current turn thread) As a result, we'd like a time extension so that we can properly exchange ambassadorial credentials, suggest treaties and trades, etc etc (It kind of took us by surprise - as you'll see from the thread we were contemplating buying the commlink from Yang, so hadn't yet determined what our Sparta-gaian posture should be) And assuming that a time extension is granted, can you please not divulge the reasin to the other teams? thanks in advance, G. (this message has also been e-mailed to you)

	05-10-2004 18:08									#365
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader - Sentry one of the units in Vladivostock, please.

You mean a probe team? There is a scout that accompanied the colony pod that will be the base garrison there

quote: - Build orders only matter if the 10 mins or more will be accumulated. So only Olympus Academy is pressing for a change if we so desire. I say let it ride as is.

The bases I listed will all have more than ten minerals next turn, so a change next turn would cost us a few minerals

quote: After this turn; I suggest we dedicate an entire thread per turn. We can name them "Pre-2141", "Pre-2142", etc. It will be easier for whoever is actually doing the turn - you won't have to search for posts in a 20 turn thread. As the game progresses, they'll just drift down out of sight anyways, so now worries about clutter. Also: It will ease things for people like me - who have trouble loading the pages at Apolyton.

I agree - it's what the old CGN crew did right from the beginning in the last game, and anyway, our turns are now becoming more complicated as we've met the Gaians, and will soon be infiltrating Zak, so a per-turn thread makes sense

I'll open a 2141 pre-planning thread now where build orders and movement suggestions can be posted

EDIT: done - go Here

G.

	05-10-2004 23:38									#366
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'll respond to several posts here. But I need a little time (I type slow)...

And I'll edit it in this post - so check back here!


EDIT:


Snoddasmannen:

Micormanagement is necessary if we want to stay competitive with the other teams. Trust me: They are no doubt being just as meticulous...

Once we have stolen technology from a particular base - high security interlocks are then put in place. Thereby reducing the chance of repeatedly stealing from the same location. Better to steal with a lower class morale on a probe, than come back with better morale but against better security.

Also... Even though we don't have the UoP world map; with infiltration we can get a pretty good approximation of where their bases are actually located. This is done by peering in their individual base screens windows (accessed by clicking on them through the "F4" command). Then we can figure likely target bases, approach paths, which one's are probe defended, etc, etc. Then we can plan a massive, all at once, probe rape.

HOLY CRAP! That reminds me - we have the Hive infiltrated!
I'll have to check all that out later...
See. Having new people helps keep us on our toes.

Hive Intel.

Nothing special in the base windows.
Most of Yang's bases are in the jungle, eh people.
One probe team. I can't find it in any garrison. Must be out somewhere. Maybe on the way to the Gaians (laugh).
Any conversation I have with him that ends with "Or else I'll crush you like a bug", results in a state of Vendetta with him...


Zeiter:

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Also something to keep in mind: when we steal social psych from Zak, we'll probably want to switch several of our bases to rec commons. So, just keep that in mind when considering build orders.

REC COMMONS!?

Are you a Spartan or a Morganite?

Don't let me see anything like that again...

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter After the impact infantryman at Santiago Citidel, how about a steady stream of impact rovers for the Uni invasion?

Infantry all the way up to missile weapons are two rows. At elite they move just as fast as a non-elite rover. Rovers are just not as cost effective (unless we have the production capacity - which we currently don't).

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter BTW, excellent intel gathering, KrysiasKrusader

It's the first time I ever did this in a PBEM. Sure takes a lot of the guess work out of things. I'm still getting used to it myself. (Good thing I read the rules a few days ago...)


Maniac:

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I agree that with this news boy scouts have increased in priority. How many do you think we'd need for now? Would one or two in our future west coast base suffice?

Depends on a lot of things. How far away Morgan is? How fast can he find us? How fast will he produce probe foils? etc., etc.
For now, I'd say we're safe for at least 4-6 turns. But we'll know a lot more after that than we do now.
In PBEM's I usually put at least two infantry probes in all costal bases (at least three if playing the UoP). I have back up probes in my interior bases. One game I remember well - I had 4 probe defenders in every coastal base, and two mobile probes in every interior base. I was constantly patroling the sea costs with my navy (and I had a lot of boats), and the skies with my airforce (I had even more of those). And I still, almost got infiltrated!! I absolutely just hate getting infiltrated...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac are we still building two probe teams (with *two* MPs so that they can land next to a base and infiltrate in the same turn) in Fort Buster and Olympus Academy? The screenshot says yes, but your midturn battle report says no

In the file I have; they are listed as "Boy Scouts".

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Besides scout patrols and probes, formers are of course important as well like Zeiter says. Currently we don't even have enough formers to make any use of Gene Splicing.

Yea. More on this below...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Too many needs, too little minerals, as so often.

Agreed.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac How would you have terraformed the Crater? With forests? Remember we don't have EcoEng yet, so forests wouldn't have given any mineral advantage: the tiles are already producing two!

Forest and forget, till we have the restriction lifted. Farms are a waste of time. You have to terraform the square again later on. I hate having to do that when I can be doing something that will give me turn-advantage. But that's me, and strictly my own opinion. I hardly ever build any farms. Only exception is; condensor/farm/soil enricher on nutrient bonus tiles.
(Go to CGN and download my last game turn in Googlie's "June Challenge". You'll see how I like to terraform.)

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Great intel!

Tell me about it. I'm still buzzing over us being allowed to that myself...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Though IIRC the infiltration option no longer appears once you've infiltrated once.

I think your right.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Currently we can still support all our drone control needs by cheap police forces. Is it lucrative to build rec commons then?

Lt. Colonel Maniac.
Don't tell me that you've been drinking out of the same bottle as Captain Zeiter!!!

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Anyway, in negotiations we could try to downplay the perceived importance of IndAut by reminding them we can't run Wealth.

My thoughts exactly. I concur.



Googlie:

quote: Originally posted by Googlie You mean a probe team? There is a scout that accompanied the colony pod that will be the base garrison there

No. You have two units in Vladivostock currently. A scout patrol, and a probe. They are both on "H" for hold. I'm asking that you put one or the other - don't matter which one - on "L" for sentry.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie The bases I listed will all have more than ten minerals next turn, so a change next turn would cost us a few minerals

Huh? Excuse me then. I'll scramble off to verify...

Okay. I see only two bases where this applies (where's the third?), Fort Buster, and Olympic Academy.
OA has enough support attached to it already. A Boy Scout is fine by me.
FB could take another supported unit, but I see no use saddling it with that for now. So another Boy Scout is fine too, for now.
These are actually two good mineral producing bases. They can pump out support units for the newer bases, then attach these to them. But Boy Scouts are fine by me as is.


To Everybody:

Lot's of good suggestions and ideas. But: We can't do everything at once! We have to grow the faction. Here's what I think we need (more or less in order):

- We need more bases.
- We need more colony pods.
- We need more bases.
- We need more formers.
- We need more bases.
- We need more probes.
- We need more bases.
- We need to get bigger.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Our exploring Rover has encountered a damaged Gaian Mindworm Who's our ambassador - Kass? We need to open confidential (ie, not within the game screens) communications with them.

Allright!
Here's where I've been known to shine.

Let me get my "diplomatic kit" together!

Lemme see...

Impact rifle - check. Synthmetal body armor - check. Laser carbine - check. Concussion grenades - check. Daggers - check. And, oh yeah; a pen for the others to sign the surrender documents.

Okay, I'm ready!
Lemme know if you need my services.




Edit #1: General review
Edit #2: Probes
Edit #3: Diplomacy
Edit #4: Hive infiltration to be checked.
Edit #5: Production at FB and OA
Edit #6: Hive intel.

	06-10-2004 02:49									#367
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

hehehe, okay, maybe we don't need rec commons immediately, and yes, we should solely use our scouts as police for as long as possible. But eventually, if we want to grow to size 3 or 4, we'll need either rec commons or a switch to PS.

Re: the farms in the crater - yes, you do eventually have to terraform over them, but the growth that they give you in the early game is essential for turn advantage. Running FM, it doesn't make much sense to plant farms because the bases cant go above size 1 or 2 anyway without being hit with drone riots, but with the Spartans the police bonus makes early growth much more lucrative.

	06-10-2004 06:10									#368
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Are there production plans to meet that scout patrol level?

Not immediately - priority is for the infantry probes (Boy Scouts)

quote: How many extra b-drones did Vladivostok cause by the way?

See pic below

quote: I agree that with this news boy scouts have increased in priority. How many do you think we'd need for now? Would one or two in our future west coast base suffice?

I'd put 2 infantry probes (I named them "Boy Scouts") in each of our coastal (or 1 tile inland) bases, and a rover probe team in every other base - ready to rush into the breach if we get probe-raped

quote: Anyway, the most effective defence against infiltration by Morgan is infiltrating Morgan ourselves IMHO. That way we can see in advance if and where they're building probes. For that purpose, are we still building two probe teams (with *two* MPs so that they can land next to a base and infiltrate in the same turn) in Fort Buster and Olympus Academy? The screenshot says yes, but your midturn battle report says no:

I wasn't (proposing to build 2 movement point probe teams) - rather get a quantity of 1 mp infantry probes which can be produced in a hurry (and upgraded with trance and armour eventually as decent defenders). But of course this turn hasn't been finalized yet, so still can change to rover probes. (In fact, I'll do that so that we can get the trannie loaded with a couple for the trip northwest where we think Morgan is lurking)

quote: Besides scout patrols and probes, formers are of course important as well like Zeiter says. Currently we don't even have enough formers to make any use of Gene Splicing. Too many needs, too little minerals, as so often.

I agree - but we do have a few formers milling about, but with Ind Auto imminent (and crawlers - yet another claim on our production capacity) we'll need mines and/or forests for them to crawl, so I don't see condensors being a high priority yet (but how can we pop-boom without them right now???

quote: IIRC I traded DocFlex to Lal for 25c the turn we infiltrated Yang and discovered he had DocFlex. Yang's two laser foils seemed to be heading straight east to LaLaLand at that time, so I though it would be best to trade it ourselves before Yang met him and traded the tech. Also that turn I discovered Zak already had DocFlex himself, and since Zak's submissive to Lal, Lal could have gotten that tech from him too at any moment.

Ah, yes. I'd forgotten

Do we still want to buy the Angels' commlink from Yang? Maybe the Gaians have it (we should ask, at least)

G.

	06-10-2004 07:43									#369
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: I agree - but we do have a few formers milling about, but with Ind Auto imminent (and crawlers - yet another claim on our production capacity) we'll need mines and/or forests for them to crawl, so I don't see condensors being a high priority yet (but how can we pop-boom without them right now???

Our formers will have to soon carry the burden of preparing additional tiles for crawlers and farming rolling/rainy tiles. Therefore, I suggest we:

*have Sparta Command build a former
*have OA build a crawler to harvest that 7 min tile, then have it build 1 or 2 formers, and then resume building crawlers.

The probe team situation sounds good. I can't really explore our options in that field, but the emphasis on defensive probes is definitely warranted.

	07-10-2004 05:31									#370
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Bah. I come in and notice that drugs is gone, and to make matters worse, i have to do stuff >.> Guess i had better start paying attention here.

	07-10-2004 10:22									#371
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Maniac However taking into account our population growth combined with the extra b-drones from new bases (on average 2 new drones per base), we'll probably need 10 scout patrols by MY 2144 to satisfy all our drone control needs. And even more later when we move our rovers away to invade someone. Are there production plans to meet that scout patrol level?

Just a clarification on a previous post (a week or so ago)

An Ogre doubles the Police rating at a base (not +1). So it certainly makes sense for Fiona and Shrek to be garrisoned at our largest bases (as currently they indeed are)

Will this change the calculation re # scouts needed in the next ten years?

G.

	07-10-2004 17:19									#372
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmm, I'm working from my memory here, so there could be some mistakes.
But IIRC our bases will have the following sizes MY 2144 or so.
SC1: 2
SC2: 3
SC3: 2
SC4: 2
VV (Vladivostok): 1
FB: 2
GH: 3
OA: 2
plus two new size 1 bases

Every citizen beyond size 1 is a drone. This means we'll have 9 drones due to large base sizes.

The second reason for getting drones is a large bureaucracy. We'll have 10 bases in a few years while our b-limit is 6. Every base beyond #6 adds on average 2 new b-drones, so with 10 (6+4) that would make 8 b-drones. It could of course always be a little more or less.

So most likely 17 drones to quell by MY 2144.
ogres: 2x2=4 drones quelled
Warwag: 1
two scout rovers: 2
scout patrols still needed: 10
Then we'd have enough units to counter 17 drones.

Later on, if after infiltration of Zak it seems they're a weak target and we decide to organize a little expedition to their lands, we'll probably need some extra scout patrols to replace the units going on the warpath.

Btw, if I understand correctly you've moved a second rover to the new southern base location. This removes a unit we could use for police duty, so that would mean 11 scout patrols are needed. (On the other hand, SC2 is currently building an impact infantry, so that unit can also help out for a while before it moves on to other stuff, leaving the immediately needed number at 10)

	07-10-2004 17:29									#373
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, if I understand correctly you've moved a second rover to the new southern base location. This removes a unit we could use for police duty, so that would mean 11 scout patrols are needed. (On the other hand, SC2 is currently building an impact infantry, so that unit can also help out for a while before it moves on to other stuff, leaving the immediately needed number at 10)

That rover doesn't need to go there.

I'd started it out to pick up escort duty for the AA being shepherded home, but realized that the empty trannie could pick up the AA (too late a realization to do the smart thing and move the AA west last turn where it could board the trannie and be back in GH during 2141 - now the trannie has to manoever round that sea fungus tile to pick up the AA)

So with the rover already being partway to the new southern base I figured that with yang prolly expanding in a northeast direction we'd likely need a bit more strength based in that frontier location (an Elite and a Commando scout rover).

It can always go back to Harbour if it'd be more useful there

	08-10-2004 02:47									#374
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It just occured to me that the Rio Grande base could be especially vulnerable to a Morgan infiltration after we've founded it. Therefore, we also need to get a probe defender there ASAP.

Conquering the Uni continent will be much easier once we are in Police State. If we bring along some scout patrols, we can make those just-captured bases immediately productive with our ability to quell up to 6 drones.

	08-10-2004 03:01									#375
	Put an end to popups!

I guess that yang won't sell us Doc Loyalty now (for Police), as he has started the Command Nexus

	08-10-2004 03:06									#376
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Should we let him build it or try to probe it off of them? The former means a possibly huge delay while the latter means war with him. Or we could research it ourselves failing all else...

	08-10-2004 03:33									#377
	Remove this text

I say wait until a convinient time and probe it off him, and possibly try to snatch the command nexus. Not right now, but in maybe 10 years. In fact, by that time we'll be ready to probe all of his tech off of him. Sure, he'll declare war on us, but by then we'll have the crawler factor working on our side. We'll only need a small force to guard the fungal pass. Meanwhile we can direct the bulk of our attack against Zak.

Researching it ourselves would be great...if it were feasible. As it is, I see the massive Hiverian probe rape as being the better option. I mean, we'll get all those juicy techs (he has like 6 or 7 that we don't, right?) and the operation will be practically effortless, aside from building the probe teams and maintaining a small impact rover force at Minas Tirith. Researching all those techs ourselves or trading for them involve unnecessary sacrifices. All we have to do is wait until the time is ripe, and probe-rape Yang senseless.

	08-10-2004 05:11									#378
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I guess that yang won't sell us Doc Loyalty now (for Police), as he has started the Command Nexus

That's a gimme...

	08-10-2004 07:03									#379
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was going to comment on a few things in the last two pages of this thread, but since we're moving to "a thread a turn" now, it may be better just to let some things lie.

These are all great ideas, suggestions, etc.

Biggest problem, though, is we do not have the production / capability / time to do all of this. We only have so many bases at a limited amount of minerals per turn.

We can't do everything at once. We should focus in one direction.

Wether that be by increasing the amounts of our bases by producing colony pods, or conquest (which I don't see happening in the next while), or a combination of both. We really need to get bigger...

Once were larger - we can then do more with what we have.

	09-10-2004 10:06									#380
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hail Krysias, my welcome to the Spartan cause (albeit late)...

you have made a valid concern about our lack of mineral production, and with that i have some suggestions to the Junta...

1) we need Bore Holes. i don't care if we steal ECOENG from Uni or build it on our own. has to be done, and leads to Tree Farm

2) need to contain Hive (new southern land and sea bases)

3) not sure if we are ready to atk Uni w/o Missile/Jet. if we do this, it must be TOTALLY commited. Blitz, with no sue for peace. however, it will be costly w/cranking out rovers/trannies/probes and insufficient mineral production for war operations

4) Global Reach w/sea bases (i've said this before). Playing against the Pirates taught me this strategy. Pre-positioned sea bases (even in terrible squares) give rapid shifting for Air and Missile units

	09-10-2004 21:35									#381
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quote: Originally posted by Primus Pilus 1) we need Bore Holes. i don't care if we steal ECOENG from Uni or build it on our own. has to be done, and leads to Tree Farm

You'd prefer boreholes, KK forest and I mines. Looks like we can look forward to some big debates.

	09-10-2004 21:37									#382
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Build all three of them, that's what I do

	10-10-2004 06:34									#383
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Primus Pilus:

Sorry for the late reply. But your post is quickly getting buried...

Thanks for the welcome buddy (smile).

Concerning your points...

1). I wrote something concerning how quickly we could make baoreholes in the Popboom thread. And, as far as I can tell, we are heading for treefarms.

2). Good point for the Hive. But I think we will be eventually invading them. So containment will become acquisitions. Sea bases are notoriously difficult to stop the AI from founding, though...

3). Uhmmm... Not to sure about wether you'll be able to convince the rest of us to wait for missile weapons and needlejets. Can you expand on that a bit? Agree on conducting total war, and not before being properly prepared.

4). Good point. But these take quite a considerable amount of time to get produced and then founded in their desired locations. Perhaps by; lifting land and forming a land bridge, would be more efficient and economical. Though we need a little more information on the exact disposition of the UoP first.

Thanks for bringing these to our attention.



Maniac:

I use mostly forest AND boreholes. Sometimes dedicated energy parks if the elevation is above 3,000 meters. But, I suppose the best answer, is that I use what I figure gives me the best rate of return on my investment.

I'd love the debate, if we could conduct it over the telephone. In other words where I'm not at a disadvantage cause of my typing skills...



Kassiopeia:

Good answer! Just who decides which and where? (laugh!)

	15-10-2004 19:05									#384
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Second, you payed two credits too much for the SC3 hurry order. A few years back, you also paid one credit too much for hurrying the SC2 rover Shinsengimu (sp?). That's because unfortunately you still seem to think hurrying units costs 2 credits per mineral, like it is for facilities. However for units it's much more irregular. Could you please have a look at the file I attached below? It could save us a few credits in the future.

M: the pdf file attached to your old post seems not to be anymore (all I get is an SQL message that's it's not available):

**********************************

There seems to have been a slight problem with the database. Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

We apologise for the inconvenience.


Database error in vBulletin: Invalid SQL: SELECT forumid
FROM thread,
WHERE .threadid=thread.threadid AND .attachmentid='81315'

mysql error: You have an error in your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'WHERE .threadid=thread.threadid AND .attachmentid='81315'' at l
mysql error number: 1064
Date: Friday 15th of October 2004 10:06:25 AM
Script: /forums/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=81315
Referer: http://apolyton.net/forums/editpost...&postid=3212305

****************************************

(the post's ID is:

http://apolyton.net/forums/newreply...&postid=3212305 )

Can you put it up again as I can't seem to find where i stored the original download

	15-10-2004 19:31									#385
	Put an end to popups!

.

Attachment: nethogs_smac_rush_build_table.pdf
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	15-10-2004 19:53									#386
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Thanks Kassi!

	15-10-2004 22:58									#387
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm still getting garbage:

**************************************************


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%âãÏÓ
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13 0 obj
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H‰b```f``Qb`e`à}Å À€

**************************************************


If it's in XL format (after decoding the pdf doc) can someone just e-mail it to me?

	15-10-2004 23:20									#388
	Increase Your PM Length

(I'm back)

I just tried that link myself.

Had two error messages then 2 programs failed, then my computer locked up. Had to reboot manually...

	15-10-2004 23:25									#389
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Does this work?

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...build_table.pdf

Perhaps attachments in private fora aren't working anymore?

	15-10-2004 23:28									#390
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I just ran over to CGN and found this . But it is in excel and/or pdf format. Since I don't have those (nor really know what that means), I didn't take a chance downloading it.