01-08-2004 09:13									#31
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2122 suggested orders

Rolling Thunder

1st mp >>> due east (to 64:16) skirting south of the summit of Mt Olympus. That should reveal a string of 4 more tiles

Then use the 2nd mp to go to 66:16 (which looks like it has our coastline running through it) so as to uncover 66:18 and the handful of ocean tiles to its east before heading north along the eastern shoreline (66:16 doesn't seem like an ocean tile from the topography map)

SCC Invincible

Continue on a southerly direction to see if this body of water opens up into an ocean, or if it's just a large bay. But if we get within hailing distance of any Hive units, have cookies and candy ready to hand out in celebration

R0112 CRV- and Chiron Knights

Change production at GH to a Pressure Dome, (in case we get another instabuild) then use the injured Chiron Knights to pop that pod due west of their position (with R-112 ready to tag-team if a mindworm materializes) If a dome completion, great, if not, then change back to an Invincible class foil

Any better ideas?

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 01-08-2004 at 09:23

	01-08-2004 09:46									#32
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double post

	01-08-2004 09:49									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I'm curious, how much is it speeding up our research right now? How much earlier are we going to get techs?

Due to the rounding upwards, it'll have no effect on our research rate

our labpoints currently are 2 (3 energy x 60%, rounded)

with the NN's upkeep of 1 ec per, our energy will fall to 2, @ 60%, giving 1.2, x 1.50 for the NN, which is still 2, rounded

Obviously, as GH's population grows to 2, and assuming the worker is put on a river tile, the energy will become 4, minus the 1 for the NN, x 60% allocation, x 1.5 for the NN, rounded, or, in other words, [(4 - 1) x .6 x 1.5] = 2.7 rounded to 3

	01-08-2004 10:17									#34
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quote: with the NN's upkeep of 1 ec per, our energy will fall to 2

(Why) does it deduct also from the total raw energy output of the base, and not only from the factional pool of energy credits?

	01-08-2004 14:09									#35
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Yeah, that doesn't really make sense how the game figures it. In that case, it might be a while before we get any benefit from the net node at all. I'd say that's even more reason to scrap it now. When GH grows to size 2, it would already be making 3 labs a turn without the network node. Even then the node won't be doing any good. It's likely that the node won't become useful until maybe 20 or 30 years down the road, when we've spent 20 or 30 ECs just for upkeep, and then it will only be marginally useful until about 50 years down the road, when it might actually be bringing in 3-5 extra labs/turn. But by then we'd have the industrial capacity to just build it if we wanted.

I just see those 40 credits as being much more useful than paying 1 EC a turn for nothing for a while. We can't count on SCC Invincible or our rovers to collect ECs from pods. If they do, then that's even better, but I think using the ECs from the scrapping of the net node to hurry CPs, thus gathering more resources (including labs) earlier and faster would be much better.

We'll get an extra 1-2 labs for every turn earlier that we plant a CP. Assuming we could use those 40 ECs to rush...oh, maybe 2 CPs 4 turns each, means we get an extra 8 base production turns that we never would have had. This translates into:

approx. 32 extra nutrients
at least 16 extra minerals
at least 16 extra energy, including 10 extra labs!
Plus all of the turn advantage that this entails

And we'll get all of this without paying any maintenance. I at least think we need to give this option a solid look.

All of the unit moves sound great.

	01-08-2004 14:47									#36
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I'm with Zeiter... I don't know much about MP but I reckon that 40EC's are better now than some extra lab points 20 years from now. The extra cash will come in handy paying veteran's pensions after the Hive war

Of course, a NN is good if we find an alien artifact, or are those more typically used for completing wonders in these games?

	01-08-2004 18:15									#37
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There is one other benefit worth mentioning:

As Random Events are on, the presence of a Network Node immunizes us from the research-destroying NN event (we'd get the contrary event, a tech breakthrough)

Of course, the odds of it being that event and that base being hit are small, but palpable.

Summirizing - pros & cons:

keep the node

pros

• reserach at Gythium Harbour increases by 50%
  
• we can cash in an AA there for a tech
  
• we get a tech breakthrough if GH is hit with the NN event (low odds)
  
• free holotheater if we build the Virtual World (unlikely)

cons

it costs 1 ec per year to upkeep. So from the period 2121 to 2221 (100 turns) it costs 100 ec's to upkeep

sell the Node

pros

we get an immediate 40 ec's

cons

• research rate at GH drops by 1/3rd
  
• it costs 88 mins to build again
  
• we lose all our faction's accumulated lab points if GH is hit with the NN event (low odds)
  
• we've nowhere to cash in an AA for a tech if we want to

I can't speak for the rest of the Junta, but if we'd popped the pod and gotten the nut special plus 40 ec's I'd have said "wow, that's great"

But getting the nut special and the NN built for me was:



(we prolly need a poll on this decision)

G.

	01-08-2004 19:21									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie with the NN's upkeep of 1 ec per, our energy will fall to 2, @ 60%, giving 1.2, x 1.50 for the NN, which is still 2, rounded

I eran it thru Maniac's simulator, and our research does go to 3 at that base - from the current 2 (and total labpoints to 11, from the current 10)

	01-08-2004 20:19									#39
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i'm ok w/suggested unit moves. on the fence about the NN. i like the Pressure Dome idea. the extra resource benefits would cover the cost of 'rebuilding' the NN later. however, finding an artifact by popping the 2-pods next turn would be sweet so, the middle road might be to leave the NN, pop the pods, then cash the NN if no artifacts found and start either the Dome or SCC Hunter. also need to consider a Transport to look for sea artifacts and quickly deliver a CP to the Hive front door.

	01-08-2004 20:28									#40
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It abhors me to slash and burn infastructure when there is no pressing need for the ECs it would bring about. Not that I'm a good player or anything, but my instinct is to keep the NN.

	02-08-2004 02:31									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I eran it thru Maniac's simulator, and our research does go to 3 at that base - from the current 2 (and total labpoints to 11, from the current 10)

Well that changes things. Though I am still leaning towards cashing it.

I guess we need to ask ourselves what our middle to long-term plans for Gythium Harbour are. It has three sea squares in base range which could potentially bring in a lot of energy, and of course we have several river squares who also generate extra energy. If we are intending to let Gythium become a well terraformed, big ol' base (perhaps bring down Shrek to cool the drones) generating a lot of energy, I might just sign the petition to save the network node...

I wouldn't use Gythium to that end if I were playing myself, I would use it to build ships. But I'm not playing myself so what are our plans?

	02-08-2004 04:37									#42
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I'm against cashing in the network node. why are we switching our production to network nodes if we don't intend to keep them? We should swith them to something else. Yes it's another 40 ec's.

If we have a good use for those CC's. and I can be shown that the CC's will be invested in something like terraforming which could make up the research in an equivalent amount of time, then I'm for it.

	02-08-2004 05:17									#43
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Ah, so Gythium Harbor is getting an extra lab point from the node after all! I thought that's how it worked. We'll, that changes everything around. In that case, that seems to be an acceptable deal for me: 1 ec for 1 lab point, with future benefits being even bigger. I didn't see much of a point in keeping the node if it was just going to cost us money, but now that we find out that it's actually helping us right from the start, I'm for keeping it.

	02-08-2004 05:58									#44
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and as population increases, the advantages increase as well (GH with 2 pops, left hand version with node, right hand without a node):

Attachment: ghsim2pops.jpg
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	02-08-2004 08:27									#45
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Oooooh, 2 labs bonus per turn! Excellent! I'm definitely convinced that we need to keep it now. Thanks for the screenies to illustrate.

	02-08-2004 08:34									#46
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And if we use GH for our naval yards (and building them there if we don't get the MCC) - we'll be producing navy ships there and won't be churning out colony pods, so pop will increase as will labpoints!!

	02-08-2004 16:44									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2122mid.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	02-08-2004 18:41									#48
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Invincible

I'd continue southeast to see if that little forested neck is the only link to our landmass

Rolling Thunder

Move southeast - it's mission for 2122 is to find the coast, plus it can pop the pod if we want to next turn with its first movement point

Shinsengumi

I agree - will it get there in time? (ie when it uses its 2nd mp to enter a river, does it then continu for the remaining 2/3rd downriver, or does entering it use up all its 2nd mp?)

Well done with the treaty!!

G.

	02-08-2004 21:33									#50
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quote: The reason for this is because Firaxis mixed up or miscoded those two diplomacy options. When you supposedly offer only goodwill and friendship, you're actually offering whatever the other wants, while if you offer whatever the other wants (name your price), you're actually offering goodwill and friendship. This was discovered by GeoModder some years ago.

I never knew that. That explains a lot of things though.

How troublesome will the Hiverian borders be? Where exactly do they sit?

Also, we need to really try to squeeze some tech out of him. He's got PlanNets!

	03-08-2004 02:31									#51
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need some clarification from from our covert ops. i was highly disturbed while reading the 'Tree Prattle Times' that the Gaians claim to have 2-ships! how in the hell did they get ahead of us w/navy? my recollection of Gaian play is that they don't early-on pursue Doc:Techs. please help...

	03-08-2004 02:38									#52
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The answer is probably very simple: they're lying.

	03-08-2004 02:39									#53
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now that we know that the Hive border is closer than we thought, suggest rapid expansion to secure sth, and rapid sea exploration east and west.

	03-08-2004 02:52									#54
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I don't think we need to be too worried about the Hive encroaching on our borders right now. We've got a fungal wall the size of China between us.

	03-08-2004 04:14									#55
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What do with

• Rolling Thunder
  
• SCC Invincible
  
• Chiron Knights
  
• R-112

	03-08-2004 05:04									#56
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Next turn (2123)

SC1's colony pod.

I remember now we discussed the site being 2 tiles north of SC1. While close, I agree that it's fastest as well as it also brings the spare monolith and the unpopped pod into its radius. So I align myself with the Junta members favoring 62:16

Tomcat-1

quote: Originally posted by Maniac IIRC Tomcat-1 is supposed to cultivate a farm on (52.16), NE of SC3, right?

Right. That can be used by SC3's next pop as well as by Base # 6 when built.

After that I suggest it forests the arid nut crater tile on 52:20

Rolling Thunder

I suggest moves 1 tile east (to the coast) and then 1 north (assuming that 67:15 is land and can be entered)

As RT is 10% damaged I wouldn't risk popping a mindworm for the time being (last thing we need is RT to be destroyed and a rampaging mindworm entering an unguarded Sparta Command)

Chiron Knights & R-112

I'd move CK southwest into the fungus at 55:33, then try to get R-112 to join it there (1 move west then 1 north) preparatory to popping that minerals tile pod with some tag-team assistance. That should have the benefit of opening up that southern shoreline at 53:37 as well

SCC Invincible

My druthers would be to continue south by southwest with her to open up as much of Yang's continent as possible (in fact, see if we can circumnavigate it)

He (Yang) has the Jungle (45:37 to 47:39, on the diagonal, with the Jungle to the west of that line), which is prolly why he's able to grow so quickly

	03-08-2004 05:24									#57
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Everything sounds great.

I bet if we continue scouting Yang's eastern coastline far enough, we might run into one of the other factions. We could concentrate on contacting those factions, or we could get their commlinks through Yang (for a price, probably) and use SCC Invincible to scout somewhere else. How imperative is it for us to contact the others right now?

	03-08-2004 07:32									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Primus Pilus ............the Gaians claim to have 2-ships! how in the hell did they get ahead of us w/navy? my recollection of Gaian play is that they don't early-on pursue Doc:Techs. please help...

They don't yet have the Doc Flex technology, so if they do have a ship - or two - it's from pod-popping coastal pods.

But I agree with Maniac - they're just "distorting the truth"

	03-08-2004 09:16									#59
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gaian lies are ok, didn't know their tech advances (and not sure how covert ops works, i'm just a Spear i would REALLY like to plop a Sea Base around the forest sqs next to Hive. Primus is new to this game format, but to me early game expansion is paramount, especially at 'hostile' borders. While i will submit that crater bases (etal) are needed, let's not restrict ourselves to 'Home' Island. Push the envelope and be SPARTAN !!!

	03-08-2004 10:17									#60
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re, our Tech Tree: Doc:INI and DOC:AIR should not be delayed. i will support any initiatives towards these gains. Force Projection and Foothold are Spartan Mandates...