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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
Next turn (2123) |
Thanks for the orders. 
quote:
Originally posted by Primus Pilus
i would REALLY like to plop a Sea Base around the forest sqs next to Hive. Primus is new to this game format, but to me early game expansion is paramount, especially at 'hostile' borders. While i will submit that crater bases (etal) are needed, let's not restrict ourselves to 'Home' Island. Push the envelope and be SPARTAN !!! |
A problem is that a sea colony pod costs 77 minerals. At our current production rate, it would take several decades to build one.  However you gave me an idea. How about, once Gythium Harbour has grown to size 2 and when we can pop a unity pod, we temporarily switch GH production to a sea colony pod in the hopes of a materials pod?
Btw, just for the record, sea bases don't get land borders, meaning we wouldn't be able to work those forests near Yang. 
***
On another note, is it ok if the next/first production item in Sparta Command, Sector Cratersouth (new base) and Olympus Academy (new) is a former? I've been playing ahead a bit with the fully updated SMAX simulator, and if we don't get some more formers soon, our empire will still be largely unterraformed and unroaded when the next colony pod wave hits. And after base 6 we'll start getting on average 2 bureaucracy drones per base built, so we'll have to be able to move police forces fast all over the place.
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:35
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I had a look at our labs production.
Currently our tech cost is 75, and the # of accumulated labs towards Applied Physics is 62. At 30-10-60 our yearly labs production is 11 labs. This currently means next year our accumulated labs would number 73. We will probably pop 2 unity pods, bringing our accumulated labs to 75 (one labs per pod popped).
IIRC the way the game checks for if a tech is researched, is first adding the labs production of a base, and then doing the check. If the # of labs equals or exceeds the # of required labs, the tech is researched. However the labs exceeding the required number are lost and not carried over to the next tech. This means that MY 2125 all labs of SC1 (our first base) will be lost, as we'll already have the required 75 labs at the start of the turn.
To prevent that, I'd like to request to change energy allocations for the next two turns to 50-0-50 instead of 30-10-60. This will bring total labs production to 9 instead of 11, and SC1 labs production to 2 instead of 3. This nicely adds up to 75, meaning no waste.
Is this ok? Also, in case I'd still be the turnplayer when we research our next tech, would I then also be allowed to change the energy allocations if necessary for this purpose?
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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If it's going to be 2 turns to Applied Physics, why not run this turn and next at 60/0/40 (for an extra 2 ec's per turn?)
quote:
Originallly posted by Maniac
(Also, in case I'd still be the turnplayer when we research our next tech, would I then also be allowed to change the energy allocations if necessary for this purpose? |
You have my vote
(btw - Yang will sell us Applied Physics for 100 ec's)
I presume orders are:
Rolling Thunder
northwest then north (if land) or northwest again (unless if fungus, in which case northwest again, if clear)
Change Gythium Harbour production to a Pressure Dome, then have the injured Chiron Knights pop that pod to its southwest, with R-112 hovering to provide mindworm control if needed.
(if a monolith, CK will heal - and upgrade? Which of our 4 rovers has had a morale boost? If R-112 hasn't, and CK pops a monolith, then I vote we visait it in R-112.
Otherwise, R-112 south then west to head for that remaining pod at 49:33
SCC Invincible
pops pod adjacent to it, and if mindworm, make battlefield decision whther to engage or withdraw.
If no facilities completion at Haebour, then revert production to SCC Invincible class foil
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeiter
Do we need new orders for any of the units? We are planning on popping that pod next turn with Chiron Knights, correct? I believe everything else has been decided. |
I think so too, with Googlie's orders.  Hopefully we'll be contacted by another human faction soon, so we'll have some other action.
quote:
BTW, what are our current EC reserves? |
8 credits, with currently 6 extra per year (due to running 60-0-40).
Meaning it'll be a few more years before we have enough cash to attempt buying a commlink. But hopefully, if the nex Phalanx with your Hive story  is published soon, perhaps another faction will buy our commlink and contact us. (Let's hope they don't ignore us for fear of a conquering faction  )
quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
If it's going to be 2 turns to Applied Physics, why not run this turn and next at 60/0/40 (for an extra 2 ec's per turn?) |
Okay, done.
quote:
(btw - Yang will sell us Applied Physics for 100 ec's) |
Heh well, we can always hope that sea pod gives us 100c. One chance on a 100 or so I guess. 
quote:
(if a monolith, CK will heal - and upgrade? Which of our 4 rovers has had a morale boost? If R-112 hasn't, and CK pops a monolith, then I vote we visait it in R-112. |
IIRC all our rovers except the damaged Chiron Knights have had monolith upgrades.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
On another note, is it ok if the next/first production item in Sparta Command, Sector Cratersouth (new base) and Olympus Academy (new) is a former? |
I agree. In SP games, by now I make my first unit in all new bases a former (and rush it if i can afford it) - right up to when I stop getting that first free row of minerals.
If we do pop 50 or 75 ec's with the foil, do we want to re-open the debate re cashing in the Network Node for its 40 ec's - and buying Applied Physics from Yang (and thus getting Plan Nets the turn after as we switch) ................ and if so, then do it before popping the land pod with Chiron Knights where we change production at Harbour back to a NN (or a Pressure Dome?)
All this in case we pop a tech with the rover - or a facs completion
So the sequence would be:
- Switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
- pop the seapod with the foil
- if a facs completion - great
- if 50 (or more) ec's, then cash in the Network Node
- Call Yang and buy Applied Physics for 100 ec's
- switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
- pop the land pod with Chiron Knights
- if a monolith (heals and upgrades CK), commlink or tech, great, like wise OK if a facilities completion
- If not the latter, then change production back to an Invincible class foil, ready to switch to a foil probe the turn after
Sound like a plan?
Last edited by Googlie on 04-08-2004 at 06:27
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Zeiter
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Yeah, if we get 50 or 75 ECs, we can look into that again. Although, can we be sure that Yang's mood won't suddenly switch, and he suddenly won't want to trade applied physics? Because that would really suck.
And I agree about switching GH production to a pressure dome before popping future pods to the south.
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Zeiter
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Oh, wait, it just occured to me: maybe Morgan got the Hive commlink frequency from a popped pod?
Also, we might need to take a vote on cashing the node before we decide on it, because I know almost everyone didn't feel comfortable with the idea before.
quote:
can we change research with no penalty? This is something I never do in single player games, so I'm not sure. |
If you acquire the tech you are currently researching through other means (trading, probing, etc.) then you can choose a different tech to research at no cost - all of the lab points carry forward.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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In looking at the 2123 map, the Hive must have a base at 51:41. The sea borders of a base only extend 1 tile (look at the profile of the base we've visited - identical to the set up where Invincible is now.
So after popping the seapod, visit the base (Yang will prolly call us, so that means won't get peeved at us dialling him)
 Attachment: hive coastline.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).
Last edited by Googlie on 04-08-2004 at 07:30
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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Of course, if we desparately want Applied Physics this next turn (and Planetary Networks the turn after) then we amend the sequence to guarantee us getting it:
- Switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
- pop the seapod with the foil
- if a facs completion - great
- if 50 (or more - but not 100) ec's, then call Yang and ask for that 65 ec loan (obviously, if we pop 100, we have enough to buy outright)
- then buy Applied Physics from him (he then hangs up)
- If no ec's in podpop, then sell the NN for 40 ec's and call Yang and ask for loan
- then buy Applied Physics for 100 ec's
- switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
- pop the land pod with Chiron Knights
- if a monolith (heals and upgrades CK), commlink or tech, great, like wise OK if a facilities completion
- If not the latter, then change production back to an Invincible class foil, ready to switch to a foil probe the turn after (when we get Plan Nets)
What we can't scenario test is:
We get enough cash from podpopping or sale to buy Applied Physics outright
Does Yang then ask "anything else?"
If we say, "yes, give us a loan - and he does, then does he hang up or again does he ask "anything else?"
If the latter, we can then buy a commlink, whereupon he hangs up
So it all hinges on whether we pop ec's with the foil, and for how long Yang keeps that commlink open
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Zeiter
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Those terms aren't generous. He's asking 3 times as much in return! But still, asking for loans from the AI is a great deal, as you can use that money better than the AI can, and it ends up giving you more precious turn advantage. So, this is actually a good deal for us. I'd be for the loan anyway, tech or no tech.
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Zeiter
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* Zeiter salutes Jamski.
Hey, that's something I never considered - using transport foils to ferry CPs to future base sites. That could come in handy if we want to plant a base near the fungal pass. It's quite a way on land, but by sea it would take just a few turns.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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* Googlie salutes Major Jamski*
quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
a TRANSPORT foil instead of a second gun foil would be a better investment |
I'd kinda laid off the trasport foil for the time being in the hopes that Invincible would pop one from a pod (albeit they are only 2 movement points)
I still think that a probe foil is a better investment than a trannie + team. The latter has to sit around the nearest base after a successful operation waiting for the trannie to return to pick him up and ferry him off again.
Plus, if using a foil's first movement point, and always entering from the oceanward side, foils can also be used to pop pods - just don't enter a fungus podaquare - as it can always run away from IoD's
(And if you run a scenario, the incidence of popping cash is higher than with a trannie - which can't run as far either - as some of the other options are not available for the game mechanics (a rover, an AA, etc - just like with Invincible)
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, what would you think of switching GH production to a sea colony pod before a pod popping? That would basically give us a colony pod and a pressure dome in one (free for sea bases), instead of only a pressure dome |
I don't think the game mechanics would give a pod completion for a base with just 1 population - I think the algorithm looks at it and then discards that option, "rolling the dice" again.
(And on the off chance it did, are you suggesting that we disband GH and then build again just offshore?)
quote:
Thirdly, I just got contacted for a vacation job to the end of August, so I don't know if I'll be available to play the turns fast enough. Therefore I'd like to resign as turnplayer. 't Was an honour to be your CO |
I can assume the duties until I leave for Scotland/Ireland on Aug 22nd, but after that - even assuming I take my laptop with me - my internet visits will be sporadic at best
Last edited by Googlie on 04-08-2004 at 18:33
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:35
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Great idea for the loan.
quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
I'd kinda laid off the trasport foil for the time being in the hopes that Invincible would pop one from a pod (albeit they are only 2 movement points) |
With 300 sea pod poppings (those tests a while ago) I only got three unity foils though. And all three were popped by a transport foil. So the chance we could get one this way seems rather small unfortunately.
quote:
I still think that a probe foil is a better investment than a trannie + team. The latter has to sit around the nearest base after a successful operation waiting for the trannie to return to pick him up and ferry him off again. |
True I hadn't considered that. Though there are other differences too. I'll try to make a list, comparing two probe skimships against a transport filled with two probe teams.
Two probe skimship:
- They have one extra movement point.
- They can do two different jobs.
- They can immediately start on a new mission again after a succesful operation.
Other advantages I missed?
Taskforce of a transport filled with two probe teams:
- The taskforce as a whole is one mineral row cheaper to produce compared to two probe skimships.
- Production of the taskforce can be divided over multiple bases, also our more productive inland bases like SC2 (=> hardened probe teams!!) or the Crater bases. Because our current and future port bases probably won't be producing more than 2 or 3 minerals for a long while, this means the whole taskforce could be completed a decade before the first probe skimship could be finished.
- The transport can also serve other duties: pod popping (with a good chance for alien artifacts!), transport of colony pods or troops...
- The probe teams can also probe bases one square away from the sea.
- The probe teams can pod coastal land unity pods, and hop immediately back on the transport.
- If a probe is captured during a mission, or loses a probe battle, only three instead of five mineral rows are lost.
That's all I can think of right now.
quote:
Plus, if using a foil's first movement point, and always entering from the oceanward side, foils can also be used to pop pods - just don't enter a fungus podaquare - as it can always run away from IoD's |
Does the same not count for transports?
quote:
(And if you run a scenario, the incidence of popping cash is higher than with a trannie - which can't run as far either - as some of the other options are not available for the game mechanics (a rover, an AA, etc - just like with Invincible) |
AFAIK the probability of getting a rover is rather low though. (For what it's worth, I got none on 150 tests.) But the probability of getting alien artifacts is rather high with a transport: one chance or eight or so if I may believe my tests. Is this not a good instead of a bad thing? We already have an Ogre, so with one artifact, we'd already have half a secret project potentially ready. IMHO an artifact is the best pod pop result one can get this early with the exception of 200 credits (not possible yet right now AFAIK) or an Ogre.
quote:
I don't think the game mechanics would give a pod completion for a base with just 1 population - I think the algorithm looks at it and then discards that option, "rolling the dice" again. |
Hmm, I did some tests and I couldn't get any materials pod to complete a CP while at size 1. You seem to be correct. So as you say a pressure dome seems indeed the best option. What would you think of aiming for a sea colony pod though after GH has grown to size 2 in 2 turns?
quote:
I can assume the duties until I leave for Scotland/Ireland on Aug 22nd, but after that - even assuming I take my laptop with me - my internet visits will be sporadic at best |
Ah thanks. Btw, after August 22, do you mean your internet visits will become sporadic for always , or for a limited period?
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Zeiter
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Another advantage of a probe foil is that, if we meet another ship, and if we have enough ECs, we can mind control away that unit.
Yet another advantage is that probe foils can attack land probes on the coast and in coastal bases, but not vice-versa.
Although these considerations may not have any relevance at this point in the game.
I wonder, what really are the chances that we'll be popping many pods with our probe foils? Most likely, they'll be travelling over terrain that has already been scouted. And we won't be taking many detours with them, as we'll want them to arrive at their destination as soon as possible.
I'm kind of leaning towards the transport/land probes idea, but I'm not really sure at this point.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
And all three were popped by a transport foil. So the chance we could get one this way seems rather small unfortunately. |
Come to think of it, I can remember many times popping a trannie with a trannie, but can't recall too many instances of popping a trannie with a foil - even as the Pirates
quote:
Production of the taskforce can be divided over multiple bases, also our more productive inland bases like SC2 (=> hardened probe teams!!) or the Crater bases. Because our current and future port bases probably won't be producing more than 2 or 3 minerals for a long while, this means the whole taskforce could be completed a decade before the first probe skimship could be finished. |
And that's prolly the killer argument. Trannies, produced at a coastal base, can multutask. Plus, probes, produced in more minerals-rich inland bases, can be churned out as infantry and rover probes (and +2 morale, as you say, from SC2)
quote:
The probe teams can also probe bases one square away from the sea. |
And while the AI doesn't do this much, wily human players are certainly alert to the danger of costal bases
quote:
Does the same not count for transports? |
Yes, but with 1 less movement point they can't put as much space between them and the threat
quote:
But the probability of getting alien artifacts is rather high with a transport: one chance or eight or so if I may believe my tests. Is this not a good instead of a bad thing? We already have an Ogre, so with one artifact, we'd already have half a secret project potentially ready. IMHO an artifact is the best pod pop result one can get this early with the exception of 200 credits (not possible yet right now AFAIK) or an Ogre. |
Agreed
quote:
What would you think of aiming for a sea colony pod though after GH has grown to size 2 in 2 turns? |
I'd agree with that
quote:
.....internet visits will become sporadic for a limited period? |
Just for the five weeks I'll be in the UK & Ireland (I return Sept 24th)
G.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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So 2124 turn orders would be?: (that ? is asking for approval/confirmation)
Step 1
- Switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
- pop the seapod with the foil
- if a facs completion - great - go to Step 2
- if 50 (or more - but not 100) ec's, then call Yang and ask for that 65 ec loan (obviously, if we pop 100, we have enough to buy outright) - go to step 3
Step 2- If no ec's in podpop, then sell the NN for 40 ec's and call Yang and ask for loan of 65 ec's, then go to step 3
Step 3- buy Applied Physics from Yang for 100 ec's(he then hangs up)
- switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
- pop the land pod with Chiron Knights
- if a monolith (heals and upgrades CK), commlink or tech, great, like wise OK if a facilities completion
- If not the latter, then change production to a transport foil, ready to load up on probe teams after we build them following getting Planetary Networks the turn after
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Zeiter
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That all sounds great.
And then maybe the following turn, if we end up not having to get a loan from Yang for applied physics, we can get the loan anyway, and use it to get the Data Angels and Morganic comm frequencies.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
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It sure would be nice to pop 100 ec's - that'd solve all our problems (or even 50, though I am loth to sell that Network Node)
And a great idea to home the SC2 scout at GH
Longer term - do we want to switch to Planned when we get Plan Nets? Our growth would go to +2, our efficiency takes a -2 hit, but we remove our -1 Industry penalty
Oh, and I loaded the simulator with an Applied Physics breakthru, then a Planetary Networks one. our next choice of techs is:
- Nonlinear Mathematics
- Industrial Base
- Social Psych
- Progenitor Psych
I'm assuming we all agree to go for Nonlinear Math?
Last edited by Googlie on 05-08-2004 at 09:41
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03-08-2004 19:53
Attachment: 
If only we could make it ours...
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