06-08-2004 00:05									#91
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quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy The way I look at it is, image a civ map with no bounds, and all the land gave as much resource and food as you fancied .. the game would change dramatically ! (be well boring wouldn't it ???)

We don't need to experience resource shortages to be creative.

	06-08-2004 03:07									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Blake Although it is interesting to note that the Market economy is not leading towards such abundance, for example fresh water is becoming less abundant and more expensive, often as a direct result of the market economy, for example the fertilizers, pesticides etc applied to land to make production more "economical" pollute the rivers and reduce abundance of fresh water. Heavy industry and often agriculture pollutes the water table. I also see, all around me, evidence of the Market Economy reducing (or atleast, not heading towards) abundance of food, my home region has been almost entirely paved over with vineyards, replacing land that use to be producing food, with something more profitable, wine to sell to the rich.

First of all, water is not a commodity in the free market. It is a mixed bag heavily regulated mumble jumbo that makes the califonia power grid system look like childs play. There are random government regulation all over the place all markets here or there making a mess of everything. The water cycle is too complex and involves too much things for simple market system to work and there are no ownership of water tables under cities or rainfall from the sky while everything from urban development, climate change, deforestation, reforestation, agriculture, mining whatever has an influence on water supply. One simply can't make someone pay for the railfall lost from logging 400km away or drivers 300km away. Unless we can, production costs are extremely distorted and "rational" decisions don't reflect real supply and demand.

As for food, there is a super abudence of food, up to the point we can ship food to feed millions on a monthly notice and occasional waste decent food like using them as animal feed.

quote: The Viceroy The way I look at it is, image a civ map with no bounds, and all the land gave as much resource and food as you fancied .. the game would change dramatically ! (be well boring wouldn't it ???)

We'd try to beat people in mp by uber ICS (since things still take 1 turn to build, time is scarce) and carefully controlled overflow error-file corruption.

Asher would probably rule in this setting

	06-08-2004 08:59									#93
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quote: First of all, water is not a commodity in the free market.

And here I could have sworn that about the only source of drinkable, fresh water was bottled, unless you wanna go into the mountains to get some.
Even here in New Zealand only a few towns and cities have non-chlorinated/fluoridated water, if it's got **** in it to kill the bugs, it aint fresh water. It's diluted pool water.

	06-08-2004 10:47									#94
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quote: but seriously though, human health will in my opinion be a major problem if we did have more energy and space than we could use.

Or nanotechnology would change the biological processes so much, (biomachinery?) one could be able to directly, consciously control metabolism through mere thoughts.

"Okay, now burn more fat! Give me more energy!"

"I need to sleep. Burn less"

	06-08-2004 18:19									#95
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quote: Originally posted by MORON First of all, water is not a commodity in the free market. It is a mixed bag heavily regulated mumble jumbo that makes the califonia power grid system look like childs play. There are random government regulation all over the place all markets here or there making a mess of everything. The water cycle is too complex and involves too much things for simple market system to work and there are no ownership of water tables under cities or rainfall from the sky while everything from urban development, climate change, deforestation, reforestation, agriculture, mining whatever has an influence on water supply. One simply can't make someone pay for the railfall lost from logging 400km away or drivers 300km away. Unless we can, production costs are extremely distorted and "rational" decisions don't reflect real supply and demand. As for food, there is a super abudence of food, up to the point we can ship food to feed millions on a monthly notice and occasional waste decent food like using them as animal feed. We'd try to beat people in mp by uber ICS (since things still take 1 turn to build, time is scarce) and carefully controlled overflow error-file corruption. Asher would probably rule in this setting

I'm inclinced to agree.

Speaking of water. Here's an interesting little tidbit.

Water costs more in Seattle (one of the raniest areas of the U.S. if you don't know) than in Las Vegas (one of the driest areas of the U.S). This shows how much goverment regulation there is over water. I'm talking about tap water btw.

	06-08-2004 19:08									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'm inclinced to agree. Speaking of water. Here's an interesting little tidbit. Water costs more in Seattle (one of the raniest areas of the U.S. if you don't know) than in Las Vegas (one of the driest areas of the U.S). This shows how much goverment regulation there is over water. I'm talking about tap water btw.

Las Vegas would be nothing without the help from the govt to get water.

	06-08-2004 20:20									#97
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quote: And here I could have sworn that about the only source of drinkable, fresh water was bottled, unless you wanna go into the mountains to get some. Even here in New Zealand only a few towns and cities have non-chlorinated/fluoridated water, if it's got **** in it to kill the bugs, it aint fresh water. It's diluted pool water.

It seems that you kids are way too touchy about your water.

tap water.

	06-08-2004 20:30									#98
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Tap water

	06-08-2004 20:59									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Tap water

come where I live and see if you say the same thing.

	06-08-2004 21:00									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Las Vegas would be nothing without the help from the govt to get water.

only because other state goverments are bullies and would hog the entire colorado river. We have a major river going next to our city (actually 30 miles away). We have plenty of water. The thing is, we are small, and states like Colorado, California, Utah, and Arizona are big. They take most of the river water.

	06-08-2004 21:13									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident come where I live and see if you say the same thing.

Huh?

	06-08-2004 21:19									#102
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our tap water tastes like ****. That's my point. But it's very cheap. If you only use it for drinking, cooking, and bathing the water is almost free (because you won't exceed a certain threshold where rates increase)- most of the rest is just taxes and subsidizing poor people.

	06-08-2004 21:20									#103
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That's why we invented Brita.

	06-08-2004 21:31									#104
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Hell, even without Brita....