 |
| |
|
|
Pekka
|
 |
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:33
|
|
No I didn't say he got purple heart and everything else is semantics.
I said, he actually FOUGHT in the war and SAVED his fellow soldier, and everything else is just semantics. Meaning the purple heart gotten from self inflicted wounds etc.
I say the rest is semantics, because it's not good to judge a man in war, unless he commits attrocities. Everyone is a coward and everyone is a hero. At least us who never was in Vietnam, I think that's just not the bottom line here.
We got 2 candidates running for presidency. One of them will win. It's a great deal of character in the US. Now, let's compare then. Kerry went to war, volunteered, saved a friend. BUsh dodged the war and supposedly refused to take medicals because of blood tests. Now, if you want to start the mud throwing, if I was Bush, I just wouldn't go there at all. OMG HE GOT SOME OF THE PH WITH WRONG REASONS!1 So what?! Is that playing any importance in the big picture? I don't think it does. I think that is a minor thing to be worried about.
And if the other part of the competition is not able to step up themselves, but to smear the other part, well that tells more about the other part than it does tell about Kerry, now doesn't it?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ixnay
|
|
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
|
 |
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:33
|
|
Lets get some Snopes up in this piece
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
quote:
Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:
"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.
"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3
— Fred Short
"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.
I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3
— David Alston
"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2
— James Wasser
Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:
Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.
"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."1
How well all of these men knew John Kerry is questionable, and discrepancies between how some of them described Kerry thirty-five years ago and how they describe him today suggest that their opinions are largely based upon political differences rather than objective assessments of Kerry's military record. For example, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman is quoted above, yet the Los Angeles Times reported:
. . . Hoffman and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffman praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes. |
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
 |
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:33
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
These records agree with the statements on Kerry, that he served on a swift boat, and somehow managed to get injured just enough times to magically acheive the number necessary to return home in an extremely short period. |
Funny, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the phrase "somehow managed to get injured just enough times" to "magically achieve the number necessary to return home in an extremely short period" anywhere in Kerry's DD214, or elsewhere in his personnel jacket.
BTW, injured is not synonymous with wounded, and if you want to trivialize the Purple Heart, join up and get your ass under fire yourself. Otherwise, I'd be inclined to shove mine so far up your ass you'd be wearing them as a nose ring.
There are bogusly issued PH citations, but absent some real evidence that the senior officers who wrote and issued those citations lied, and thus violated their duty as officers, it's a non-issue.
The three PH policy applied to all services in Vietnam at the time. If Kerry had the political connections to get favorable treatment for an early out, he'd have had no reason to join the brown water Navy at all, when he could merely have gone anywhere in the rest of the Navy or Airforce other than aviation and been at no hazard. Or he could have pulled a Gore. Either way, he could then just as well campaign as a Vietnam Vet without exposing himself to any material risk.
quote:
He also managed to get away without any serious injuries.
Seems fishy to me.
|
Which is something you and the vast majority of posters here are spectacularly unqualified to judge, even if there was some questionable evidence.
quote:
Why Kerry chooses to draw attention to his military record is a mystery. |
Since the Bush administration is full of chicken chokers who were too precious to not find a way out of any real military service, but now they find themselves perfectly willing to half-assedly micromanage a war or three. Bushy has constantly used the phrase "I'm a war President" so he has been the one to open the door.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
|
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:33
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave
And in this case the fact is that at least one of Kerry's "wounds" that he got the Purple Heart from was self inflicted from incompetant use of a grenade launcher.
|
Self-inflicted wounds are not eligible for Purple Heart commendations, and may instead be grounds for court-martial on any of a number of charges. So we should assume either that Kerry's CO cooked the records, and/or failed to have any corroborating report from a witness to the engagement?
It's also pretty ****ing unlikely to get a self-inflicted wound in that way from a blooper. The grenade has a wind-in fuse that prevents it from exploding too close to the grenadier, and the blast radius is pretty small, so getting wounded by return fragments is pretty tough to accomplish.
quote:
Another fact is that Kerry is misrepresenting his millitary service. If he is not then let him fill out a brief two page form to allow the Navy to release his millitary record. He has declined to do so.
|
FIA requests make all non-classified portions of his service record available to the requestor, except those (medical and financial) specifically exempted from FIA or covered under other Federal privacy or non-disclosure laws.
Whether or not Kerry has declined to do so, it's like the old Sam Rayburn "pig****er" story about LBJ's first senatorial campaign. Kerry has no reason to take time to give exposure to someone else's agenda.
quote:
Yet another fact is that of the ~18 people who served with him only 2 are supporting him. Given that you get to know someone well when you serve in combat with them I would be inclined to trust the judgement of these people.
|
Kerry said some less than kind things about them after the war. Lacking any evidence of how directly these individuals served with Kerry, or of their contemporaneously expressed opinions of him, I don't find their current statements to be especially interesting, whether favorable or otherwise.
quote:
And yet another fact is that Kerry came back from Viet Nam and proceeded to lambast the US, the Navy, and the war, while he was still in service. This treason, just in case there was any doubt.
|
A general article CU or SD charge yes, but treason is laughable. I don't know what the squid JAG practice guides have to say about this, but Army JAG staff have analyzed this type of situation vis-a-vis the UCMJ, so I'm stating this conclusion based on their analysis, not mine.
quote:
Don't get me wrong, I have no love for President Bush, but I'll be voting AGAINST Kerry. |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled with Kerry, but I'll be voting against Bush. 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Nothing in what I quoted is outside of the official record of the Navy.
I have nothing against his star that he won, which I believe was not silver, but bronze.
I suggest you take your own advice.  |
Kerry won both a Bronze Star AND a Silver Star. Man, you are embarassing yourself today, aren't you? 
So, tell me, Mr. Military Expert, how is it a guy could be awarded 3 PHs, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star all through some form of chicanery?
I'll pit Kerry's war record against anything you've done any day, frankly.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Joseph
|
 |
Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:33
|
|
Pres. and US Military
Truman, Capt. Army WWI
Ike. 5 Star Gen. WWII
Kennedy LT. Navy WWII
Johnson LtCom Navy WWII
Nixon LtCom Navy WWII
Ford, LtCom Navy WWII
Carter, Com. Navy. Capt of a Fast Attack Nuc. Sub.
Reagan, I read somewhere that he was in the Army for a short time?
Bush 1, Navy Lt WWII Read the book "Flyboys", it a very good book.
Clinton a draft dogger, anti military, in fact he hated the military, Pro allowing womans to suck his penis
Bush 2, Texas ANG Part time 1st Lt
It help somtime to have military service as you can see since 1945.
Last edited by Joseph on 05-08-2004 at 06:56
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
He shot a dead man. |
Not according to his crewmate Fred Short.
quote:
The man was still running down a path when they got to the bank. Kerry, Belodeau and Michael McDarris, in hot pursuit, saw the Vietcong soldier. Short recalled: "The guy was getting ready to stand up with a rocket on his shoulder, coming up. And Mr. Kerry took him out … he would have been about a 30-yard shot. Which, we were dead in the water up on the bank, point blank. If he missed us, he would have to, you know — there's no way he could miss us. He could've thrown a rock and taken me out."
The others agreed that it was a close call. "If this guy would have got up, and he had a clear shot at us, we would have been history," Thorson said. "Wouldn't have been no doubt about it."
"If that RPG had exploded in the pilot house or anywhere in that area," Short said, "we were toast."
|
These attempts to disparage a veteran are pretty damned dispicable.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:33.
Apolyton Time is 00:33. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-08-2004 00:09
|