14-08-2004 00:28									#241
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

pekka made a good point...

whiny little kerry-hating ass-clowns are crying about thsi nonsense, but when bush plays dress-up they don't care... ****ing hypocrits

	14-08-2004 00:40									#242
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Which statements? Kerry did withdrawl many of his statements about U.S. soldiers in Vietnam and apologized for being so strident in his tone. He was angry young man, after all.

You may recall I asked you that question (whether Kerry showed any regret for his statements and acts) some months ago when we were discussing the medal throwing incident (and I knew virtually nothing about him). You answered no, and from all I've seen since, you were correct. If he had explained his actions in terms of 'the angry young man' I could've accepted it. Now, when Kerry is running for president and it's an issue, he says something else. It doesnt ring true to me.

	14-08-2004 00:44									#243
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why exactly do people care about Kerry's war record? If that's the only thing to recommend him for the White House, I'd just as soon troll the mental wards for a Vietnam vet and put him in.

Out of curiosity: Kerry did withdrawl many of his statements about U.S. soldiers in Vietnam and apologized for being so strident in his tone. Did he withdraw the statements or merely apologize for the way in which he called servicemen babykillers?

	14-08-2004 00:46									#244
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I find George H. W. Bush's (who I like) "I was out of the loop on that one" denial about Iran-Contra to be pathetic and gutless.

You appear to be ignoring the most cogent fact of those incidents, plausible deniability. With Casey (the last of the wild-bills) around there was no need for Bush or Reagan to be in the loop.

	14-08-2004 00:46									#245
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ask the people who are trying to make an issue of his alleged exaggerations and alleged lies.

wrt Kerry making an issue of it, Republicans have traditionally attacked Dems on patriotic issues from avoidance of service to weakness on national defense.

	14-08-2004 00:49									#246
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat wrt Kerry making an issue of it,...

That doesn't really explain running on it almost to the exclusion of his Senatorial record.

	14-08-2004 00:50									#247
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH You appear to be ignoring the most cogent fact of those incidents, plausible deniability. With Casey (the last of the wild-bills) around there was no need for Bush or Reagan to be in the loop.

Plausible deniability is one thing, actual lack of knowledge is another. I doubt that Casey freelanced so much that he created major policy without the knowledge of either Reagan or Bush. I don't think anyone would really expect them to know the details, but to deny knowing that there was even a policy involving buying the freedom of hostages from Iranian sponsored terrorist organizations stretches plausibility.

As does having no idea how money was continuing to reach the Contras (a major pet project of the administrations) despite the Boland amendment.

	14-08-2004 00:54									#248
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That doesn't really explain running on it almost to the exclusion of his Senatorial record.

Do Senators have records?

Besides, the theme of the Republican election attempt for Bush is solidly going to be the three R's, so the economy and Iraq are pretty much going to be the issues, with a sprinkling of a little "baby-murdering heathen libruls" vs. "right-wing religious fundamentalist whackos" polarization.

	14-08-2004 01:01									#249
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Plausible deniability is one thing, actual lack of knowledge is another. I doubt that Casey freelanced so much that he created major policy without the knowledge of either Reagan or Bush. I don't think anyone would really expect them to know the details, but to deny knowing that there was even a policy involving buying the freedom of hostages from Iranian sponsored terrorist organizations stretches plausibility. As does having no idea how money was continuing to reach the Contras (a major pet project of the administrations) despite the Boland amendment.

It was just good management

Casually mention an idea, or give a slight nod to one from an underling and let them run with it. We're just lucky that Casey didnt take "we're gonna bomb Moscow in 5 minutes" to heart.

	14-08-2004 01:04									#250
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Do Senators have records?

Hell if we're going to go that route his involvement in the Winter Soldier Investigation would be a better point of attack. Possibly a commercial with his comments about American troops being babykillers and whatnot then spliced in with his comments about troops now.

	14-08-2004 01:12									#251
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And when did Kerry call American troops babykillers? Got a cite on that?

What Kerry said was referring to some soldiers, and what he said was, as far as we know, true. I myself spoke with a vet who ordered his platoon to rape and kill a woman who had tried to throw a grenade at them. Not just shoot her, but rape and kill her. Now, maybe he's lying, but why would he? Is that something to brag about?

Is anyone so naive to think some U.S. troops didn't commit terrible acts like Kerry mentioned, especially given what we've seen coming out of Iraq?

	14-08-2004 01:15									#252
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Got a cite on that?

I asked my question first. Protocol demands you answer mine before asking me one and I always stand on protocol.

	14-08-2004 01:18									#253
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

So, DinoDoc, why did you say that you hated black people and that you hoped that the Supreme Court would take away a woman's right to vote?

	14-08-2004 01:20									#254
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Have you stopped beating your wife?

The babykillers were part of your question.

	14-08-2004 01:20									#255
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was an angry young man. I apologize for being so strident in my tone, KH.

	14-08-2004 01:21									#256
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Ramo The babykillers were part of your question.

Sorry answering a question with a question just irritates me.

	14-08-2004 01:23									#257
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I find it stangely ironic that DD has been caught in a web of lies while attacking a man so often accused of fibbing.

	14-08-2004 01:24									#258
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Sorry answering a question with a question just irritates me.

It was just to show you didn't know what you were talking about, my apologies.

	14-08-2004 01:30									#259
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I find it stangely ironic that DD has been caught in a web of lies while attacking a man so often accused of fibbing.

How was I lieing?

	14-08-2004 01:35									#260
	I'm genuinely curious about the answer to the question I asked... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I wouldn't have posted otherwise.

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov It was just to show you didn't know what you were talking about, my apologies.

I think this works the other way around if you do this much dancing to avoid answering a relatively simple question. As for the babykiller comment, it was a slight exaggeration on my part (You gave a vague statement that he apologized for his comments on the subject of Americans in Vietnam. I was curious about thier extent.) to which people responded with pointless anecdotes about people they claim to know and amusing historical questions from Canadians.

	14-08-2004 01:36									#261
	Tired of ads?

So why don't you rephrase the question without the lie? After all, it was kind of crucial to the question...

	14-08-2004 01:39									#262
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

And maybe you could answer directly which statements in Kerry's '71 Senate testimony you take issue with?

	14-08-2004 01:40									#263
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Not in my opinion.

	14-08-2004 01:50									#264
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ramo And maybe you could answer directly which statements in Kerry's '71 Senate testimony you take issue with?

The ones Boris claimed he felt the need to apologize for. Or we could just go with his very involvement in the Winter Soldier Investigation an enterprise discredited in these intervening years?

	14-08-2004 02:07									#265
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You'll have to be more specific than that. I know that a book that a Winter Solider organizer wrote has been partially discredited (albeit, not conclusively), but the WS testimony has never been refuted to my knowledge.

	14-08-2004 02:11									#266
	Re: I'm genuinely curious about the answer to the question I asked... Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc amusing historical questions

	14-08-2004 03:10									#267
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ramo You'll have to be more specific than that.

This is DD you're talking about. He doesn't deal in specifics, lest he not be able to weasel out of things.

	14-08-2004 04:38									#268
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe In reality I think they both suck. I take issue with the media coverage more than anything else.

	14-08-2004 05:45									#269
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH It was just good management Casually mention an idea, or give a slight nod to one from an underling and let them run with it. We're just lucky that Casey didnt take "we're gonna bomb Moscow in 5 minutes" to heart.

Letting them run with the details is good management. Letting them set the policy without you knowing isn't.

I laughed my ass off at Poindexter's repeated "micromanagement isn't my style" answers though.

	14-08-2004 05:55									#270
	Got spare money?

Like your sig, Drake. I wonder what else is "seared" in his memory? Did he remember he is so far left that he has fallen off the boat or is he still trying to sear in his recent moderation for a few more months??