10-10-2004 03:43									#31
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Right - it doesn't (I just tested it on the simulator)

So we need to send 2 probe teams over on a trannie, to ensure successful infiltration

	10-10-2004 03:46									#32
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I'm worried over the Morganite reaction, though - should we drag our feet on a possible treaty before infiltrating them just to be on the safe side?

	10-10-2004 04:23									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie So we need to send 2 probe teams over on a trannie, to ensure successful infiltration

What if the first probe team fails to destroy the defence attorneys?

	10-10-2004 04:41									#34
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Hmm - suggesting a "phalanx" of probe teams - 2 trannies' worth?

	10-10-2004 04:46									#35
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While I'm presuming that by now they have probe defenders in every base, we could send SCC Hunter exploring around their coastline looking for other bases rather than doing its loop as we discussed

Or we could save that exploration role for the 3rd gunship (or trannie) out of Messen Bay

	10-10-2004 04:54									#36
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If the first probe failed, and the second just destroyed their probe, they'd have to declare vendetta on us to kill the probe. They'd have to repatriate it. Kinda funky, you can have massive probe warfare going on without any real action.

	10-10-2004 04:56									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Hmm - suggesting a "phalanx" of probe teams - 2 trannies' worth?

Not really. The cost would be enormous: another 90 minerals!

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia If the first probe failed, and the second just destroyed their probe, they'd have to declare vendetta on us to kill the probe. They'd have to repatriate it. Kinda funky, you can have massive probe warfare going on without any real action.

My fear is they have a defence attorney stationed in every base. Meaning they could just move a probe from an inland base to Vander Eudaimonics, making our attempt pointless. So if we'd want to infiltrate, it would probably have to be a quick one-turn action.

	10-10-2004 05:01									#38
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Ah, point taken. I was just playing with the idea of having a probe war going on.

	10-10-2004 05:34									#39
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Probe wars are fun (laugh!).

And when you've treateid/ pacted. You can't conduct an action unless you break the treaty / pact first, no?

	10-10-2004 07:36									#40
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My bolding

If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you must select 'Declare Vendetta' in the dialog box that appears afterwards, and notify the victim of your transgression, unless you have received permission in advance. No notification is required in other cases.

Okay. I was involved in the game where the ammendment of "truce" was made to this rule. So I remember this (I hope).

What happens, is that the 'Declare Vendetta' box pops up, even though it shoulden't. What should happen is that you are automatically at vendetta - works in single player games. But not in multiplayer games - where this is broken.

So if you tested it in the scenario editor, was it set up as a single-player game (against an AI faction), or against a human comtrolled faction?


Edit: Attacking another unit (or destroying a probe) is an act of war.

Last edited by KrysiasKrusader on 10-10-2004 at 07:41

	10-10-2004 07:46									#41
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Oh crap.

So does this mean, if the Data Angels try to get someone infiltrated, they must end up in war with them too? And more importantly, does this then mean that we'll end up in a war with the Morganites? I don't think it's that good an idea any more.

	23-11-2004 17:49									#42
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While updating the simulator with the University mineral and nutrient reserves, I found this (see pic below).

As you can see, there's a probe present in the base radius of this Uni Base.
I then put the pieces together:
Zak has ProgPsych while he didn't yet have it last year.
He has 25c less in his reserves than last year.
So someone traded him ProgPsych for 25c.
And who do we know has ProgPsych? The Morganites, as they're going after AdapEcon.
I then looked to the Morganite diplomacy window, and yes indeed, the University commlink can no longer be sold to them.

Morgan and Zakharov have met!

This could of course have large repurcussions for us.
From now on Morgan could trade or steal all those juicy technologies from Zak, instead of buying them from us.
On the other side, if he buys them from Zak, indirectly that cash could end up in our pockets when we conquer Zak.

	23-11-2004 18:19									#43
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And here is the pic.

Attachment: morganprobe.jpg
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

	23-11-2004 19:23									#44
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Good sleuthing!! You're absolutely right.

As they prolly can buy the PK's commlink from Zak, should we now sell it to Morgan?

	23-11-2004 19:50									#45
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It's interesting, though, that Morgan would take 25 ec's rather than one of Zak's techs that he doesn't have

	25-11-2004 19:26									#46
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Perhaps Zak didn't want to trade away his more valuable techs?

The Morganites are taking a long time to response though.

	25-11-2004 20:00									#47
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I think that they only visit the Embassy when their turn is either imminent - or already in their hands

	25-11-2004 20:24									#48
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Aha - so they use a system of seasonal labour.

	25-11-2004 20:35									#49
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LL

	29-11-2004 11:00									#50
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Infiltration Sucessful

Here's their base production, citizens' and garrison data

Attachment: morgandata-2149.jpg
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	29-11-2004 11:06									#51
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And their nexus data:

Attachment: morgannexux-2149.jpg
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	29-11-2004 17:13									#52
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Great work! So much for defense attorneys
Thanks for the screenies Googlie. Lots of data, and it's good fun to see the little personal touches the Morgans put in. Gotta love those "Half an SP on Wheels"

My first reaction is the lack of any defense, though I guess they don't really need one right now.

They're also producing probe teams like crazy... I guess I never really understood this throughout our discussions either, are probe teams really useful for defense against military units?

Also, notice how they've lost 5 scout units! Those mindworms sure ain't friendly against the free marketers...

They have two probe foils out there, as well as a transport. Alert the probe defenses.

	29-11-2004 19:23									#53
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Seems like we infiltrated before a big rush of attorney training.

quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen They're also producing probe teams like crazy... I guess I never really understood this throughout our discussions either, are probe teams really useful for defense against military units?

Probe defences are mainly to defend against probe attacks by other factions.
However when you give them an armour higher than 1, they lose their "-50% non-combat unit" defence penalty and can thus defend just as well against military units. And they have the extra advantage of not costing support!

Of course since we can use police to quell drones, for us it stays better to use conventional military units for defence and garrison.

quote: They have two probe foils out there, as well as a transport. Alert the probe defenses.

Ah, but in a way this is good news! We know their transport foil is on the western part of their continent. Else how did a Morganite probe team end up in Uniland? So the only two units we have to fear at the moment are those two Gator boats. This means probe defending our coastal bases suffices at the moment, and as far as I can see there's probably no need right now to station crypteias in our land bases too.
Therefore I'm wondering, how about restarting supply crawler production in Fort Buster after the current Crypteia is finished? The more crawlers, the sooner the MCC will get built!

(In my simulation I played yesterday I could build it by MY 2157, but if we use Googlie's suggestion of using the probe team currently moving to MT to send off to Uniland (meaning OA wouln't have to build an extra probe team), I think one or two more years could be shaved off the possible MCC construction date.)

	29-11-2004 22:30									#54
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Thanks for the info Maniac

Do you think that once we start tearing into the Uni that infiltrating us will be easy?

EDIT: Missed a word ...

	29-11-2004 22:59									#55
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Does anyone know if, when Morgan opens their next turn, they'll get an information message "Probe defender at Vander Eudaimonics destroyed by Spartan probe team"?

I guess I'll set up the simulator as a multiplayer scenario and check it out.

Look for a self-reply soon

	29-11-2004 23:08									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Look for a self-reply soon

Yes, it does:

	29-11-2004 23:35									#57
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In a proper reality, this should be followed by some reports of destroyed Morgan units and captured Morgan cities. Oh well, better luck next time.

	06-12-2004 09:34									#58
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So ............. Morgan is beefing up his defenses:

Attachment: morgan production - 2150.jpg
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

	06-12-2004 13:45									#59
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So they are in FEAR. Delaying vital builds. Goood.

	13-12-2004 18:50									#60
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Besides the Gator Boat near Rolling Thunder II, we also know the location of the second Gator: in port in their base 'Choke on This"! (I don't have a screenie nearby unfortunately) Probably returning from infiltrating the Hive I guess?

Anyway, now we know both locations of the Gators, I guess this would be a good occassion to tell the Morganites they should stay clear of our waters.