13-08-2004 23:37									#91
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Nothing's wrong with Risk's campaign.

	13-08-2004 23:38									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker RoN has a non-linear campaign that same way that Risk has a non-linear campaign

as well as Civ games

What about Morrowwind? Seems nonlinear to me... but mind you I haven't played it.

	13-08-2004 23:40									#93
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Sid Meiers Gettysburg has a non linear campaign - which scen you get is dependent on whether you won or lost the previous scen. Of course you dont carry your troops with you, as each scen as a small pieces of the larger battle, in which many more troops are engaged.

In Panzer General and other 5 star general series, you have a non-linear campaign, and do carry your non-core units with you.

	14-08-2004 02:00									#94
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The problem with RTS nonlinearity's that most of the game would be exceedingly boring.

	14-08-2004 05:27									#95
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How so?

	14-08-2004 05:30									#96
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This isn't always the case, but there is generally less storyline or scripted events with less linearity.

	14-08-2004 05:33									#97
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Kinda by definition...

That doesn't make it exceedingly boring, though, IMO.

	14-08-2004 05:45									#98
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It does to the people who generally like story driven games though.

	14-08-2004 14:18									#99
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I like it when it's not story driven, then you can create your own story, like in SimYouNameIt

	14-08-2004 14:20									#100
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Yeah pay £30, then write the game yourself. Great stuff.

	14-08-2004 14:22									#101
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Then you can have unlimited stories, instead of just one (often) boring story

	14-08-2004 14:33									#102
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Ok send me £30 and I'll send you a game I just made. You'll love it, since you have to supply a lot (actually almost all) of the content yourself. Hours of fun, for only £30!

	14-08-2004 15:06									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse This isn't always the case, but there is generally less storyline or scripted events with less linearity.

You're right... at least many non-linear games designed for one player would be boring. But there are occasional gems such as "Pirates!" (orginial) - I loved that game waaaay back then. Koei had this terrific game for SNES - "Uncharted Waters". It was nonlinear but tons of fun.

On other hand, some games just suck. Like that Ultima game (first one I think) for NES - I didn't like it very much, probably because designers made everything so damn expensive so it took forever to get anywhere.

	14-08-2004 21:41									#104
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another one: ultimate weapons that are always the best weapon, regardless of what the target is.

	17-08-2004 00:04									#105
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Yeah pay £30, then write the game yourself. Great stuff.

no you write the story yourself. the game != the story, obviously.

Like in Simcity. Or Civ.

	17-08-2004 01:04									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus What about Morrowwind? Seems nonlinear to me... but mind you I haven't played it.

Morrowind is a gigantic gameworld, which makes for a fairly non-linear environment.

However, the main plotline for the game is QUITE linear. Of course, you could spend MONTHS playing the game and never even engage on the main plotline, thus what makes the game primarily non-linear.

Morrowind really belongs in a category to itself, I guess.

	17-08-2004 01:07									#107
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You know what, I appreciate each type of game for what it is. I like games that can be said (in some respects) to essentially be interactive movies. As long as it's WELL DONE and the stories are highly compelling, it's a great experience. A prominent and recent example might be KOTOR.

I also really like games that are open-ended and let you write your own story without really any pre-determined plot. If WELL DONE with plenty of interesting gameplay, they can be great.

I understand that some of you have personal preferences for one over the other, but I prefer just to enjoy each for what they offer. I really like both.

	17-08-2004 01:40									#108
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I just hate why puzzles are in shooters now. Half-Life started it (was a good game, though). But why does every shooter since 1999 (Doom3 being a heavenly exception) insist on putting puzzles in? Jumping puzzles, weirdo systems of switches and whatnot. It's not fun! It's not for a shooter! If it's a shooter, I don't want to spend a minute without a fight. In Half-Life, there were all those damn switches, boxes you had to jump at and the annoying puzzles at the end, that took more time than shooting. Why ruin all shooters by that?

	17-08-2004 01:45									#109
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I would like to see a brain puzzle in fps games, but I have yet to see such... but yes, jumping "puzzles" etc are boring...

	17-08-2004 01:49									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio I would like to see a brain puzzle in fps games, but I have yet to see such... but yes, jumping "puzzles" etc are boring...

Half-Life does that pretty well, with the pit tentacles and whatnot.

	17-08-2004 02:17									#111
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I never got that far in Half-Life... took too long before something interesting happened, so I stopped playing...

	17-08-2004 02:21									#112
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Half-Life does that pretty well, with the pit tentacles and whatnot.

Yeah, I'd say it's a key part of the genre when done right.

	17-08-2004 02:22									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio I never got that far in Half-Life... took too long before something interesting happened, so I stopped playing...

Then you missed out on another classic because of your strange tastes.

	17-08-2004 02:51									#114
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Then you missed out on another classic because of your strange tastes.

so, doctor, are there any classics, or subgenres, that YOU have avoided without playing them? Or playing them all the way through?

	17-08-2004 03:03									#115
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I have a surprisingly wide range, but there are still a few small gaps.

	17-08-2004 04:15									#116
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I'd argue that while Half-Life did bring some very good feautures into FPS genre, the puzzle parts were done wrong.

Playing Half-Life on the hard difficulty. There was comparatively little time shooting and much more time exploring or avoiding traps. The very boring jump puzzles, and not too fun pit tentacles and whatever. What was worst, I'd continiously suck at those. So I'd need numerous reloads to get those right. That was annoying. Even worse was getting stack for 20 minutes without an idea what to do - which happens numerous times. That's frustrating.

I don't really like it when such things plague gaming experience. Alright, what's worse, it's not what I was supposed to be playing! Tell me why if I buy a game that clearly says "shooter" or "intense action" on the box, I spend so much time trying puzzles? I thought that's what Lara Croft and similar game were for!

I enjoy a mental challenge. That's why I play SMAC and other complex games. But, I'm much better at strategizing, logics or counting than at solving general, lever-pulling puzzles. Also, when I play shooter, what I want is shooting experience, relatively fast paced.

That's another reason I was so happy with Doom3. It offered just what I wanted, enough puzzles to serve as a distraction sometimes, yet they were all so simple that even I didn't really get stuck and never did I get frustrated - while at the same time the game was a continious string of monster engagements.

	17-08-2004 08:02									#117
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Something that pisses me off with FPS's on my computer is that, for some reason, on my ME and two XP machines the mouse has a tendency to jump to the top or bottom of the screen for no apparent reason. In fact, on the new XP one it seems to happen only when playing Halo. It's frigging annoying because it's so disorienting.

	17-08-2004 10:53									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I just hate why puzzles are in shooters now. Half-Life started it (was a good game, though).

says the man who likes doom2! doom2 = puzzle game that involves shooting at your puzzles.

maps such as barrel o' fun, tricks and traps, dead simple, and etc... theyre all essentially puzzles....

	17-08-2004 23:45									#119
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Barrels o' Fun was an excellent map. It's what I like exactly - it's still shooting, but with a miniscule thinking aspect added. And fun. And good fights there were - even a Spider Mastermind on that level. Tricks and Traps, classic Doom2 map - you couldn't get it wrong. Sure, you needed to go through doors in order, but you'd figure that out. Dead Simple was not a puzzle map at all. You just had to shoot everyone and everything.

	18-08-2004 00:51									#120
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i got dead simple mixed up with another map. thats the one with mancubus aint it.