14-08-2004 22:23									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker This was a crime against humanity. Specifically, that 14 year old girl.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Cr...gainst_humanity

quote: A crime against humanity is an act of persecution against a group, so heinous as to warrant punishment under international law. The term was first used in the preamble of the Hague Convention of 1907, and subsequently used during the Nuremberg trials as a charge for actions such as the Holocaust which did not violate a specific treaty but were deemed to require punishment. The term has been criticized for being extremely vague and for being politically defined. For example, Nazi attempts to eliminate certain ethnic groups were treated as crimes against humanity, yet Soviet attempts to eliminate certain economic groups were not. In its Article 7, the treaty establishing the International Criminal Court in 2003 says: For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack: (a) Murder; (b) Extermination; (c) Enslavement; ... [1]

This doesn't meet the test of a crime against humanity.

	14-08-2004 22:29									#32
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The death penalty is only justified for crimes against humanity.

How many girls would he have to rape and kill to satisfy your criteria?

	14-08-2004 22:29									#33
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Many more.

	14-08-2004 22:32									#34
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by PLATO Why should the state pay to support his miserable life for the next however many years? The guy raped and killed a 14 year old. What right to life does he after that? What reason should the people of India pay their tax dollars to feed and cloth him? Do you want the message "Rape and kill and get free room and board for life!" or "Rape and kill and you will die." ?? If you introduce a death penalty for rape, then you are encouraging rapists to murder their victims so as to avoid conviction and get away scot free. If you introduce a death penalty for murder, then you are encouraging murderes to murder all possible witnesses and kill any cops that come after them so that they may get way scot free. Cornered animals bite back.

So we should make it as easy as possible so they don't kill too many people?

	14-08-2004 22:32									#35
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quote: Perhaps he should just have been allowed a few hours with the girl's family...who would have various instruments of torture at hand, just i case they wished to use them.

Now theres an idea… Freedom and consequences

quote: That logic extends to ANY punishment. The criminal is always encouraged to do anything possible to cover up the crime, unless doing that would make him guilty of a crime with a punishment greater enough to counter the lesser chance of being found out.

No, someone who bops someone on the nose is likely to face less punishment than shooting someone in the head, and so in the latter case there is even less incentive to be caugh, to a sufficient degree perhaps to warrant an attempt to NOT be caught, whereas in the former case that would be disproportionate.

	14-08-2004 22:33									#36
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Many more.

How many che. lets put a number so we can be clear here

	14-08-2004 22:35									#37
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quote: For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack: (a) Murder; (b) Extermination; (c) Enslavement; ... [1]

	14-08-2004 22:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack: (a) Murder; (b) Extermination; (c) Enslavement; ... [1]

\


Stop relying on definitions. Tell us how many before your blood is worked up enough to kill

	14-08-2004 22:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That logic extends to ANY punishment. The criminal is always encouraged to do anything possible to cover up the crime, unless doing that would make him guilty of a crime with a punishment greater enough to counter the lesser chance of being found out.

Unless one is of the rare opinion that capital punishment should be abolished because it is wimpier and less severe than prolonged imprisonment, one tends to think of death penalty as a great motivation/deterrant/stimulus.

Death penalty is very dramatic. There is something passionate about it. The human mind can grasp death, but it cannot grasp forty years in prison.

Would you kill to avoid death? Would you kill to avoid detention? Hmm.

	14-08-2004 22:40									#40
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The only reason not to kill to avoid detention would be that such a killing would result in such a worse punishment that it wasn't worth the extra chance of avoiding punishment.

	14-08-2004 22:51									#41
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Just saying the guy was convicted of rape and murder isn't enough for me. I need to know more to decide if he should get the death penalty. Generally, I'm with Che on this. The death penalty should only be given to serial killers and such. I like the idea of the criminal making sincere apology to the family and victims. When you kill the criminal you eliminate that posibility. Then there is the case were innocent people are executed too.

	14-08-2004 22:55									#42
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Maybe someone should invent a virtual reality thing whereby he is subjected to the same crime he committed, but is allowed to survive?

	14-08-2004 22:57									#43
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I honestly don't see how the DP, as a punishment, is different from imprisonment except in terms of severity.

	14-08-2004 23:07									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I honestly don't see how the DP, as a punishment, is different from imprisonment except in terms of severity.

Have you ever considered the possibility of being falsely accused and convicted of a crime? Maybe if you did you would appreciate having the opportunity to still prove your innocence after the trial.

	14-08-2004 23:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer The US and Japan have the death penalty and look where we're at. Stay on the winning team, India!

So does the PRC.

What a team!

	14-08-2004 23:09									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber How many girls would he have to rape and kill to satisfy your criteria?

Suppose they got the wrong person?

Oops, too bad. He's gone.

	14-08-2004 23:09									#47
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Yes. That's one reason death row takes so long.

	14-08-2004 23:14									#48
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If the state executes a murder convict, that person's no longer, gone.

However, if the state simply places the same person on life sentence without parole, he would have his entire life before him to reflect on his crime, to feel the remorse.

As far as punishment goes, that's much nastier.

	14-08-2004 23:20									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Down with rapists

You are from singapore? In your country the laws are crazy with degrading penatlies like caning. I hate singapore.

	14-08-2004 23:20									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger If the state executes a murder convict, that person's no longer, gone.

	15-08-2004 01:42									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Hardly, they contain a threat to the public

Exactly. The death penalty removes that threat. Simply because you feel squeamish about one and not the other doesn't change the fact that they both "opportunistically violate an individual" to achieve what is percieved to be a societal good.

	15-08-2004 01:57									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger However, if the state simply places the same person on life sentence without parole, he would have his entire life before him to reflect on his crime, to feel the remorse. As far as punishment goes, that's much nastier.

That's bullshit. There are a lot of psychos out there and people who are able to justifly their actions.

	15-08-2004 02:04									#53
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I don't think psychos justify. They just do evil things, and like it.

	15-08-2004 02:05									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Exactly. The death penalty removes that threat. Simply because you feel squeamish about one and not the other doesn't change the fact that they both "opportunistically violate an individual" to achieve what is percieved to be a societal good.

It's not a violation of the individual if the individual is guilty.

	15-08-2004 02:06									#55
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Amazing how human rights activists are for the rights of the murderer, rather then the victim.

Being dead, the victim no longer has any rights.

	15-08-2004 02:19									#56
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quote: Then there is the case were innocent people are executed too.

That's the big point imho. If you look at history of death convicts, look at how many were found to be not guilty afterwards, it's scary.

	15-08-2004 02:24									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I don't think psychos justify. They just do evil things, and like it.

I know. That's why I used the word "and"

	15-08-2004 02:36									#58
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quote: In your country the laws are crazy with degrading penatlies like caning. I hate singapore.

Actually, it was because some of the people were getting in jail purposely, because it was quite spartan, clean, free food and everything, (especially during the 1970's economic crisis) so caning was implemented to discourage that.

	15-08-2004 03:59									#59
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great punishment. We should do that here in the U.S.

	15-08-2004 04:03									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf quote: In your country the laws are crazy with degrading penatlies like caning. I hate singapore. Actually, it was because some of the people were getting in jail purposely, because it was quite spartan, clean, free food and everything, (especially during the 1970's economic crisis) so caning was implemented to discourage that.

Your justification is even more disgusting.