 |
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
quote:
Why don't you cane your communist vandals? Soft on crime? |
Communist rioters aren't vandals.
Many arrested weren't actually rioting; they had been charged with conspiring against the state to cause public disorder because evidence had been found that they were going to take part in a riot.
Attempted crimes tend to have lighter sentences then comitted crimes.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
quote:
That is a human rights violation |
Tell me, where in the UN Declaration of Human Rights is it mentioned?
Btw, the state has every right if it was elected.
If the criminal, in doing his crime, endangers critical principles or tenets in the process, destruction of principles should be considered as part of the crime, and therefore the appropriate sentence should be taken to restore that.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
There's a difference between one done in public and one done in private in prison.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kidicious
|
 |
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:34
|
|
According to Amnesty International someone was put to death for discharging a firearm during an armed robbery. Now, you want to explain the justice there?
quote:
Amnesty International Report 1997: Singapore
In brief: At least 34 prisoners of conscience were held throughout the year for their conscientious objection to military service. A further 47 people were imprisoned for peacefully exercising their right to freedom of expression. One former prisoner of conscience continued to be subject to government orders restricting his freedom of expression and association. Criminal offenders continued to be sentenced to caning. At least 38 people were executed and at least 19 death sentences were passed.
At least 34 conscientious objectors to military service were imprisoned during the year. All were members of the Jehovah's Witnesses' religious group, which has been banned in Singapore since 1972. All refused to perform military service on religious grounds; they were prisoners of conscience. They included Edgar Chua, who was sentenced in October to 15 months' imprisonment. Young men who refuse to comply with military orders are court-martialled and sentenced to an initial 12 or 15 months' detention in military barracks. A second refusal to comply results in a further two years' imprisonment. There is no alternative civilian service for conscientious objectors to military service in Singapore.
Trials of other Jehovah's Witnesses (see Amnesty International Report 1996) took place during the year. Between November 1995 and July 1996, more than 60 Jehovah's Witnesses were convicted of membership of an illegal society or possession of banned literature. All were fined but most were imprisoned for up to four weeks after refusing to pay the fines on conscientious grounds. All were prisoners of conscience. They included Yu Nguk Ding, a 72-year-old woman, who was sentenced to one week's imprisonment in July under the Undesirable Publications Act.
Government restriction orders against Chia Thye Poh, a former prisoner of conscience, were partially amended but continued to curtail his freedom of association and expression.
In March, three prison officers were sentenced to between six and 10 years' imprisonment and to strokes of the cane for causing the death of a prisoner at Queenstown Remand Prison in July 1995. The court found that they had beaten Ghazali Abdul Manaf so severely that he sustained more than 120 injuries.
Caning, which constitutes a cruel, inhuman and degrading form of punishment, remained mandatory for some 30 crimes, including attempted murder, rape, armed robbery, drug-trafficking, illegal immigration and vandalism. It remained an optional penalty for a number of other crimes, including extortion, kidnapping and causing grievous injury. In August, Lim Chee Wei, aged 16, was sentenced to six strokes of the cane in addition to a prison sentence for rape.
At least 38 executions by hanging were reported to have been carried out, the majority for drug-related offences. Despite the lack of official information, there were reliable indications that the real figure was much higher. In March, five Thai migrant workers convicted of murder were executed despite appeals for clemency by Thai non-governmental organizations and Thai government officials. In September, two Malaysian nationals, Zulkifli Awang Kechik and Pauzi Abdul Kadir, sentenced to death in February for trafficking in cannabis, were executed.
At least 19 people were sentenced to death, of whom 15 were convicted of drug-trafficking, three of murder and one of discharging a firearm during an armed robbery.
Amnesty International urged the government of Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong to release all prisoners of conscience and to lift the restrictions on Chia Thye Poh. The organization also urged the authorities to end the punishment of caning and to commute all death sentences.
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
quote:
Are you talking about things that aren't laws? You can't punish someone unless they broke a law, and you can only punish them for breaking the law. |
Breaking principles can be considered a law. Well a principle OF laws, because they generally are concerned about laws in general.
quote:
Giving punishment that is harsher than the crime is inhuman. |
Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, four times over.
The punishment IS supposed to be harsher than the crime. Thats what deterrent sentences are for. Its supposed to severely outweigh in cost, the benefit of the crime. Hardly inhuman, in fact, it sounds like human nature.
When you take principles into consideration, its not even harsher than the crime; in breaking principles, it warrants a harsh sentence in order to restore them.
quote:
Nonsense. Do you have any concern for individual rights at all. What makes you think that the state is more important than the individuals? |
I have a lot of concern for individual rights. But...
quote:
The goals of the greater group are transcendent |
Especially when the invididuals make up the state.
quote:
According to Amnesty International someone was put to death for discharging a firearm during an armed robbery. Now, you want to explain the justice there?
|
*skims over report*
I have to admit our political freedoms aren't exactly free, as well.
quote:
quote:
Caning, which constitutes a cruel, inhuman and degrading form of punishment |
|
I protest.
It is not cruel, inhuman, and only slightly degrading.
It is however, extreme, and thus used in only discernable cases.
As for conscientious objection, I don't really think you can evade duty to your country simply because you want to...heck, 99% of the traineers will probably never undergo war, hardship training is another thing. Its actually a career path for university, as well.
quote:
At least 19 people were sentenced to death, of whom 15 were convicted of drug-trafficking, three of murder and one of discharging a firearm during an armed robbery. |
They are DRUG-TRAFFICKERS.
Look, in Singapore, we have different priorities than the US. We have no natural resources, our only other resource besides our people is our port. Now, we can't have drugs messing up our society, because then it will be widespread, messing up our cashflow. In the US, its less of a problem, more tolerable, well because you have existing natural resources, and reputation isn't that affected.
If not for the death penalty, drug trafficking rates will skyrocket - this is bad for trade, CRUCIAL to our country's survival. Therefore the death penalty must remain, because otherwise principles and country will be endangered. Drug trafficking in the sense, is the equivalent of treason by affecting trade and overseas investor reputation.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
grobnok
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Holy Cow! That quote is from Yang. Are you serious. Yes Singapore is somewhat of a police state. Are you proud of that? |
Exactly.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
quote:
That quote is from Yang |
Its from the Ascetic Virtues, Yang merely hijacks the agenda for his own purposes. To give consideration for the greater good. Sacrificing oneself isn't easy, but thats why martyrs make great heroes.
quote:
Yes Singapore is somewhat of a police state. Are you proud of that? |
No, but we have a lot of justifications for our laws, even if we aren't a police state.
The political laws I am not proud of. The other laws are perfectly fine with me. If they were laxed, our trade and source of revenue would fall apart, and our economy would collapse.
quote:
If the're laws why do you call them principles. Principles are less than laws by definition. |
Its a blanket label, it also includes nuclear and arms treatises, things like that, relations, etc, heck the civic agenda, UN charter, Treaty of Versailles, things like that. Or very simple principles.
If a organisation tried to launch a nuclear weapon (suppose they did), not only should they be charged for destruction, but for endangering weapons treaties in the process, especially when framing countries against each other.
If a serial racist murderer, in doing his killings and targetting those of another race, endangers racial harmony and puts a country on the verge of racial rioting; then he should be charged with also causing unrest and destroying racial harmony. (Racial harmony endangerment is an offence for us, btw)
If a vandal, in his attitude, promotes US nationalism and their overrule of sovereignty, then not only should be be charged for vandalism, but for promoting the hijack of the civic agenda, which the US likes to do.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
MRT144
|
|
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
|
|
depends on the society
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
That is very debatable.
Its merely Asian reactionary culture.
Authoritarianism is irrelevant - that is for political issues.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natalinasmpf
|
|
quote:
It's not an Asian thing. It's authoritarian thing. I know a lot of people who come here to study and find out what freedom is about and never go back to your country. |
It is NOT an authoritarian thing.
Caning just happened to be normal in our culture. Parents and rehab authorities have the ability to use pain for discipline.
I know what freedom is, I went to the US, but they have a huge double standard and hypocrisy. I went, I came back. Ha!
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:34.
Apolyton Time is 00:34. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
15-08-2004 07:07
yeah, it is!
|