15-08-2004 04:05									#61
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Really?

Hardly think so.

We are quite moderate in giving out the punishments. It is quite liberal in prison, save for the fact you cannot step out. Gym and everything, heck, air-conditioning...

	15-08-2004 04:09									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Really? Hardly think so. We are quite moderate in giving out the punishments. It is quite liberal in prison, save for the fact you cannot step out. Gym and everything, heck, air-conditioning...

What does that have to do with caning people for being poor?

	15-08-2004 04:13									#63
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Uh, because often people got into jail purposely simply because they could receive free food and not work (that hard?)

Which is discouraged, simply because you are taking up valuable inmate space, leeching off the government, etc., so pain was introduced.

Bear in mind caning isn't used until felonies come in.

	15-08-2004 04:17									#64
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I would imagine that being in an Indian prison for the rest of your life is a fate much worse than death

	15-08-2004 04:18									#65
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But this is a Singaporean prison...

	15-08-2004 04:23									#66
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I shouldn't have said what I said above. I'm against the death penalty. But in cases when you are absolutely sure you have the right person, it doesn't bother me too much.

The main reason I'm against it is because of wrongful convictions, and it is used as a politcal tool by D.A.'s. And revenge just isn't enough reason to do it.

	15-08-2004 04:51									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Uh, because often people got into jail purposely simply because they could receive free food and not work (that hard?) Which is discouraged, simply because you are taking up valuable inmate space, leeching off the government, etc., so pain was introduced. Bear in mind caning isn't used until felonies come in.

You people scare me.

	15-08-2004 04:55									#68
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I disagree with this execution, on the grounds that just because a person is guilty of a crime, does not deprive them of their rights.

Sure, he killed someone else, but killing another person is not going to bring the person he killed back.

Better to deter through punishment and shame than through death.

In general, there have been innocent people convicted and then killed through the death penalty. Death is an irrevocable judgement by an imperfect judiciary.

	15-08-2004 04:57									#69
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quote: I disagree with this execution, on the grounds that just because a person is guilty of a crime, does not deprive them of their rights.

Like liberty? So I guess you're against jails, too?

	15-08-2004 05:04									#70
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People who commit crimes lose their rights. If you come at me with a sword you better be ready to die by the sword.

	15-08-2004 05:11									#71
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I do not agree with the death penalty on the grounds that the justice system can never be perfect so it should nevr have that power. Not to put down the country, but I doubt India has the most advanced systems for justice on the planet. No country does. Well, one does, by definition, but now I'm just rambling.

Not that I'd shed any tears over this guy's death.

	15-08-2004 05:14									#72
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quote: Like liberty? So I guess you're against jails, too?

If convicted? Sure, some of their rights are forfeit, but not all of their rights. They can be held, and ought to be punished for their crime. But they should not be killed.

	15-08-2004 05:16									#73
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quote: If you come at me with a sword you better be ready to die by the sword.

Granted. It is your right to defend yourself through self-defense. But a person who has been arrested and confined is a different situation from the person who threatens your life.

	15-08-2004 05:27									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Granted. It is your right to defend yourself through self-defense. But a person who has been arrested and confined is a different situation from the person who threatens your life.

Why? The confinement and the self-defense are justified by the same action. The agressor lost his rights by trying to take someone elses away.

	15-08-2004 05:28									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi If convicted? Sure, some of their rights are forfeit, but not all of their rights.

OK, well, I'll just take away the right to life, then. They can keep all the others.

	15-08-2004 05:30									#76
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quote: Why? The confinement and the self-defense are justified by the same action. The agressor lost his rights by trying to take someone elses away.

I'll ask you one question Kid: what crimes do you support the death penalty for?

	15-08-2004 05:32									#77
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: Why? The confinement and the self-defense are justified by the same action. The agressor lost his rights by trying to take someone elses away. I'll ask you one question Kid: what crimes do you support the death penalty for?

Try reading the thread rockhead.

	15-08-2004 05:33									#78
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"rockhead"? do try harder

Do you support the death penalty for armed robbery?

	15-08-2004 05:33									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Uh, because often people got into jail purposely simply because they could receive free food and not work (that hard?) Which is discouraged, simply because you are taking up valuable inmate space, leeching off the government, etc., so pain was introduced. Bear in mind caning isn't used until felonies come in.

You get caned for sparypainting a car, smashing a window. And in school, not doing your assignments.

	15-08-2004 05:35									#80
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse "rockhead"? do try harder Do you support the death penalty for armed robbery?

Are you drunk or something?

	15-08-2004 05:44									#81
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No, but you appear to be. Do you support the death penalty for armed robbery?

	15-08-2004 05:47									#82
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No, but you appear to be. Do you support the death penalty for armed robbery?

My answer to you is to read the thread and you will find out.

I don't know what your problem is with me. You don't seem to like what I say, but I don't really know why so I can't respond.

If you have a point just make it instead of trying to bait me.

	15-08-2004 05:48									#83
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Would you guys just chill a little

Discuss the topic... not each other.

	15-08-2004 05:50									#84
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quote: Originally posted by grobnok You get caned for sparypainting a car, smashing a window. And in school, not doing your assignments.

These are small crimes. This shows that the singaporian law is oppressive.

	15-08-2004 05:52									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious My answer to you is to read the thread and you will find out. I don't know what your problem is with me. You don't seem to like what I say, but I don't really know why so I can't respond. If you have a point just make it instead of trying to bait me.

You should have already seen the point.

If you support the death penalty for the same reason that you support the right to self-defense: that by attempting to take away the rights of another you have forfeited your own, then why is it that an armed robber may be shot in self defense during the act while a convicted armed robber may not be executed?

You really do need to find some new insults though. Telling me I'm a rockhead is something out of grade school, and asking if I'm drunk just makes me sad that I'm not.

	15-08-2004 05:59									#86
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It's Kidicious. Don't expect intelligence from him.

	15-08-2004 05:59									#87
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quote: Why? The confinement and the self-defense are justified by the same action. The agressor lost his rights by trying to take someone elses away.

Well, I would argue in my own defense, that I would not be justified in the use of force to kill my assailant, even in self-defense, which would confirm your point that you are making here, but that's just me.

There is another argument available that makes a distinction between the actions of an individual and those of the state. An individual can act in self-defense by killing someone in order to spare their own life. The state cannot do the same.

	15-08-2004 06:00									#88
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quote: You get caned for sparypainting a car, smashing a window. And in school, not doing your assignments.

But its not just spray painting a car, or smashing a window, which, I may say, vandalism is already a very serious crime in Singapore. Oppressive? Hardly. Conservative? Yes.

But its not just that, its some stupid idiot who thinks, just because he's American, he can do whatever he wants to our property.

Therefore a strong deterrent sentence has to be imposed, as a sign, as in principle, that we will NOT tolerate US nationalism or arrogance of any kind.

	15-08-2004 06:01									#89
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quote: OK, well, I'll just take away the right to life, then. They can keep all the others.

That works really well, Skywalker.

They have to have life in order to exercise any of their other rights, which implies a heirarchy of rights with the right to life at the top.

Ergo, one can strip someone of some of the lower and lesser rights without stripping their highest rights.

	15-08-2004 06:02									#90
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse If you support the death penalty for the same reason that you support the right to self-defense: that by attempting to take away the rights of another you have forfeited your own, then why is it that an armed robber may be shot in self defense during the act while a convicted armed robber may not be executed?

I'm sorry. You made a rude comment about my posts a week ago or so, so I was being defensive when I saw the laugh.

You bring up a good point though. I wouldn't shoot an armed robber I think unless I thought he was really going to kill me, and most of them don't. If someone tried to kill me I would defend myself as far as killing them. I've given two reasons why I don't support the death penalty. One is a falty justice system, and the other is the opportunity for the criminal to show remorse. Does this answer your question? If not maybe you can ask another one. You make a good point though.