22-08-2004 23:32									#31
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm playing 2.42 as well. I mostly play MGE or ToT these days, so it was a shock to deal with a generous, naive AI.

	23-08-2004 19:42									#32
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Well, that is unfortunate. It means each color will have to be "eliminated" thrice or wait until 1500a

Are we sure that killing off a civ three times is enough to exterminate it? I remember seeing more than three reincarnations in a game, but that was a long time ago.

	23-08-2004 21:43									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I, too, believe that more than 3 incarnations are possible - but I do believe that they require a certain amount of Lebensraum - which looks less than likely on this map...

Stu

	24-08-2004 01:00									#34
	Tired of ads?

With the extreme level of thread archiving, the threads with this info have mostly been shifted off the forums. I started one such thread and Xenon, I think, posted the results of his tests that showed the triple kill/ double respawn effect. More recently, La Fayette has posted similar, but even more detailed results. That post can be found at...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...172#post2630172

Hope that helps....

Monk

	24-08-2004 09:38									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This doesn't seem quite right to me. I have experienced the no-respawn outcome even on the initial kill of a color. Just recently I was playing GOTM 43 at a rival site, and the Sioux (the original purple civ) did not respawn (lucky for me!).

I think I recall somebody suggesting that the mechanism might be a percentage chance for respawning, which either remains constant or diminishes with repeated respawning. I think they even suggested what the percentage mght be. In any case, that seems more like the way the game engine likes to do things - and is very similar to Samson's hut outcome analysis.

	24-08-2004 10:36									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hello Grigor,

Your memory is pretty good; it was indeed Zenon who added the info I mentioned earlier and he mentions a percentage factor. This is from the Archives...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...242#post2372242

In addition to the posts by Zenon and La Fayette, I have done many simple tests verifying the multiple respawn occurance. All of them would have been earlier than the dates mentioned by Zenon that seem to affect the liklihood of a respawn. In every case, the colors reappeared until each of the civs had turned up, then stopped occuring.

This topic has not been completely put to rest, I think; but, in general, I think that playing Deity with restarts on, that until 1500a there will be many restarts.

Monk

	24-08-2004 17:41									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Monk: I can't follow your link.

quote: Invalid post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the webmaster

Scouse Gits: as usual, Stu, your language is more precise than mine. I meant more than two reincarnations, three total. I remember one of the civs repeating when I had an extra respawn (e.g. Vikings, French, Vikings, Germans). I don't think I played on beyond that point to see whether they would respawn yet again.

	24-08-2004 19:13									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DaveV,

So sorry; I should have checked the link before I retired last night. Apparently, one can not link to threads in the Civ2 Strat Archive. But it is easy to find...

Go to the drop down links below the threads and choose Civ2 Strat Archive. My thread is ~ 6th on the first page -- if you set the search to the beginning. Thread is something like Respawns end at 1500a under Deity .

Monk

	24-08-2004 21:22									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have just posted a new summary on the Strategy Forum.

(so that daveV will be sure to beat me in this game )

	26-08-2004 21:35									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Elephant Quick OCC report: a 3-special site with ocean access is visible under the Swamp to the southwest, but I'm unsure about the type of the hidden and invisible specials due to lack of huts. Looks like at least four river tiles, but if you settle on the river you lose the Whale. The continent number is 1, which may indicate a single large continent - and kills black-clicking help.

How do you work this out? In particular how do you "see" specials?

	26-08-2004 22:40									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...242#post2372242

link now works

	26-08-2004 23:06									#42
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by offa How do you work this out? In particular how do you "see" specials?

Specials are only hidden by Grass. You are familiar with the "3 up, 1 over" pattern of arrangements of specials? If not, start a blank map in MapEditor and draw a large continent that is all Plains. You will see groups of threes and fours, separated by the 3+1 pattern. You will also see huts that fall within the patterns at regular intervals. There is no hut visible in our start, which eliminates one set of patterns (it would be on the southwest corner tile where the river exits), and the lack of a special in that little lake to the northeast eliminates another set. So the 3Rivers tile northwest of the start should have a special hiden under the grass, and another should be in the black to the southwest. By right-clicking the starting tile I find the continent number is 1, so we cannot use black clicking to check to see if there is land or water out there (Ocean is #1 too). And the shape of the rivers as they exit the visible area tells me they extend at least one tile into the black. All that is left is what "type" of special (Whale or Fish) is under the grass, for which I'm not given enough indicators (other visible specials or huts).

Reading terrain is another form of experience-based Civ2 knowledge. It helps to have tried to design some scenarios of your own, trying to get specials and huts to appear in particular locations by juggling the Resource Seeds. Only certain patterns will appear, and they move fixed distances around the map each time you increment the Seeds.

	27-08-2004 01:16									#43
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks Elephant.

The level of knowledge re Civ 2 here continues to astound me. I have just found and downloaded ScouseGits hut finder which appears to magically do all of this for me. I presume this is one of the "Banned" utilities but it is pretty amazing.

I don't know if I will find time to play this, which would give you guys an opportunity to laugh at my efforts, but I am very pleased that such a great Civ2 site exists, and would like to support it. If you guys migrated over to Civ3 and played half as well, you would be near unbeatable.

	27-08-2004 22:41									#44
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hey offa,
I hope you find time to play, because then there will be two of us to laugh at.

	27-08-2004 23:09									#45
	Support Apolyton

In my experience, no one here will laugh at your results. At whatever level your play, everyone will either stand in awe or remember when they were beginning and, in either case, applaud your effort. Do your best and have fun.

Monk

	27-08-2004 23:44									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

HA HA HA HA ha ha hahahahahahha!!!!

Sorry, just had to do that proactively. I'm having one of my best games, so far, but I'll still wind up way behind the good players.

	28-08-2004 00:06									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Personally, I play MGE as usual, but I think the original save uploaded by MarkG is 2.42 and most people are going to play 2.42 (because of the *kinder* AI).

Actually, I'm playing 2.42 and I miss the MGE AI. The AIs are, for some reason, reluctant to pay protection money to the benevolent Greeks ("We demand tribute for our patience "). In MGE, I could count on goading the AIs into war, then they would give me everything they had for peace. Less money for the AIs and more money for me is the classic win-win situation.

	28-08-2004 01:35									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

"Benevolent Dave"

I shall keep that in mind

	28-08-2004 02:42									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

@ those who fear the worst ...

I don't think there is a guy on these boards who at one time didn't lose regularly at Prince (except Ming & rah who apparently were born deities). "Robust Constructive Criticism" you can expect - absolutely no laughter - except those people chuckling at my rather pathetic game - but then I'm supposed to be a professional Rabid Agressive Rodent

Stu

	28-08-2004 20:50									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Oh feel to laugh away. It's 1720AD and I just discovered pottery! Darn Mongols. I am seriously considering a restart.

I must have just picked a bad start position. I've started 3 other games to practice for this tourny and I'm stomping the AI.

Oh well. We'll see what happens.

	03-09-2004 16:49									#51
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hello. I haven't played single player for years, but I'm giving this a go.
Early conquest. Not going to badly, although the Japanese who researched feudalism passed it around just before i could kill them.

	03-09-2004 23:18									#52
	Increase the size of your Attachments

added!!

Prize: 1 ApolytonPLUS month for the Best Score and Earliest Victory game!

	04-09-2004 04:16									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MarkG added!! Prize: 1 ApolytonPLUS month for the Best Score and Earliest Victory game!

How about the earliest landing??

Monk

	04-09-2004 23:08									#54
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Welcome back, Makeo
I'm fairly sure you will enjoy it.

BTW I forgot to mention that I played 'no tribute' in my game (just one of those silly ideas of mine)
... and when I think about it, I guess 'no tribute' is even more costly than 'no bribe'.

I join solo: let us hope Mark is ready to organize another tournament where we could have a gentlemen's agreement about exactly which rules we agree to have in use.

I admit that I was wrong defining my own rules, since it is almost like playing with both arms tied behind my back.

	04-09-2004 23:21									#55
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette I admit that I was wrong defining my own rules, since it is almost like playing with both arms tied behind my back.

La Fayette = very dangerous feet...

Monk

	05-09-2004 00:00									#56
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: let us hope Mark is ready to organize another tournament where we could have a gentlemen's agreement about exactly which rules we agree to have in use.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=121610

	06-09-2004 10:26									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Not many takers for an Early Landing so I have dipped a toe in the water. Hopefully I can finish before the deadline.

Monk

	13-09-2004 06:16									#58
	Got spare money?

OK, I have finished but cannot figure out how to upload my miserable game. The save is successfully uploaded, but I get Invalid URL for my attempt to submit my game. Any clues?

	14-09-2004 09:07									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'd like to participate, but will have to submit after Sept 14th, as per Apolyton newsletter.

Just a *bit* slow on the uptake...

Thanks,
K.

	14-09-2004 14:59									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I managed to kill them off, but a couple of centuries slower than DaveV. Still, there's plenty of room for improvement.

One notable thing was I was building temples instead of elephants. The other was zero micromanagement. Given that I haven't played a single player game in years (I think since 1999), I was so much under the impression of how things are done in MP, that I kept pressing enter waiting for the other guy's turn to micromanage. This caused lots of riots and lost production/trade. This is going to change in my replay.

Also, the stupid settlers are damn slow in SP.

By the way, are we allowed to replay? And when does the contest end?