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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
One, why don;t you READ WHAT THE BIOGRAPHER STATES? since he is the primary source for this story? |
The biographer isn't the primary source. Jesus, go read about what happened and then come back. As it stands now, I could get a better debate from my neighborhood kids. Their spelling would be better, as well. |
I did: in fact, I am the one in this thread (if not part one), who just posted exactly what did happen. While you are a total ass, thankfully third parties will be able to read the truth.
quote:
By itself, it's not that important, although a presidential candidate lying for decades about an event that he claims was a turning point in his life does have some importance. It's very important, however, because of what it shows us about other things. As the first of the SwiftVets accusations to be proven, it demonstrates that they have some credibility, at least enough to warrant some sort of attention be given to their claims.The lack of fair coverage given to these claims by the mainstream media, even after the Cambodia story had been proven, demonstrates just how biased the media is in its coverage of this election. The behavior of the NYT, WaPo, LA Times and others in regards to this story have been nothing less than shameful. That's the really story here, one that came about because the Cambodia accusations proved true and the media still refused to cover them. |
God, 
Maybe the simple basics of journalism escape you:
The swiftboat vets have made many allegations. All of them have been investigated. They made their accusations in a variety of forms- their book and the TV ad. Obviously the book includes many more and more details than the ad. So the press has started trying to see the validity of each accusation independently. You say the Cambodia one has been proven-well, that assumes that someone gave it scrutiny, including the press. The issue, of course, and one you seem not to graps very well, is importance What was "proven"? That Kerry said he was sent by Nixon on Christmas 1968 into Cambodia, when according to the sources in all forms, he actually was sent into Cambodia about a month later (if one takes as you say all the available testimony into account). Of course, the last time Kerry made this story an issue was over a decade ago, so its not relevant to the current campaign-hence, for the current campaign, not important. The accusations about Kerry lying and manipulating his record to gain medals is relevant to the campaign, since this is what Kerry is using in his campaign. Hence, examining the validity of those claims is much more worthy of ink and space than the "cambodia story". And opposite to your rants and raves, the press is covering their assertions, and as the NYTimes piece shows, those assertions about the medals are full of holes.
So the press is giving the accusations of the swiftboat vets a thorough examination- too bad for you those medal allegations turn out to be contradicted not only by previous statements by some of these men, but by the public record.
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SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
At least I need not stoop to your level to prove you wrong. Really sad Drake, really sad.
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I can't go searching for the evidence, obviously. That's why it pisses me off that the investigative journalists in the mainstream media (whose job it is to look into things like this) are ignoring the charges of the Swift Boat Vets because of their partisan support for Kerry. A large group of veterans are making serious charges against a candidate for the presidency of the United States. One of these charges has already been proven accurate through the work of amateur journalists in the blogosphere. A big thumbs-up to the bloggers, but I'd still prefer it if the reporters in the mainstream media would do their ****ing job and actually investigate this issue. Luckily, it doesn't seem to be going away as they wanted, so maybe they'll be forced to actually deal with this issue sometime in the future. Most people aren't partisan morons like you who will accept articles like today's piece in the NYT as responsible journalism, so they're going to have to actually deal with the issue fairly at some point. I hope so, at least... |
Maybe you don't get it- but obviously you are a simple person, so lets take it simply, and lets use the NYT piece you criticize to show you why you are wrong.
These vets claims that there was no enemy fire during the missions in which Kerry won medals. This group makes this charge, and provides as proof statements from its members. OK, so how does one investigate that?
Well, a good investigator first gets the stories from everyone: the SBV provide one set of stories- Kerry and his supporters provide another set of statements. But all of these are statements 30 years after the facts, AND contradictory as well (one set says there was no fire, the other that there was). So, given two sets of contardictory statements about events 30 years before, you seek better evidence, specially any evidence contemporanous with the events in question. What we have then are the official navy records, navy logs, incident reports, and all other public records which the papers, including the NYT's, have checked.
And lo and behold- the offical navy records of the time one by one back up Kerry's comments. So, given two sets of contradictory statements, the tie breaker is the more solid evidence from the very period. And that evidence backs Kerry.
So tell us oh Drakie poo, just how are "reponsible investigative reporters" supposed to check? Besides THE OFFICAL NAVY RECORDS, what magical stash of information is there to tap, huh?
Please, so tell. |
To save time do you have a link where someone has posted the official records i.e. not the edited bullshit on the Kerry/Edwards website.
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Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
And Veterans are a small part of the voting public, and far less important than say women or minorities for Kerry - he should be spending his time and money ensuring maximum hispanic and black voter turnout than worrying about keeping what has always been a highly republican field like veterans. |
This race looks like it will be real close. Kerry wanted the votes of vets (he almost got my dad's vote for example) and he may need it to win. If he would have just left Vietnam alone he could have won alot of vets because they themselves are divided on Vietnam. Most just want to forget it. Even when I was helping to fight the Vietnam War I really didn't think I was fighting some great cause so I personally could not care less if Kerry opposed the war and made an issue of it.
What irritates vets is the fact that he uses them as if they were pawns just like he did 30 years ago to make a name for himself when opposition to the war was popular in states like Mass. He used them just like he is now in his run for President. He opened up wounds and now he is paying the price for his opportunism at the expense of others. This may very well cost him the election.
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Lincoln
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Maybe we could change the tone of this thread by talking about something that is not disputed, i.e., the fact that John Kerry is a war criminal. Should George Bush offer him a pardon like Ford did to Nixon in order to heal old wounds? I think it would be gracious of Bush if he at least made a token offer to pardon Kerry for his war crimes. What does everyone think about my idea?
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Lincoln
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I am just trying to spare the nation a long and devisive trial. Maybe Kerry could say that he was not a war criminal before he was, and that would help mitigate the sentence.
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Dr Strangelove
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The linked article states that the picture was made in 1993 during a diplomatic mission to Vietnam initiated by President Clinton. I wonder how many congressional missions to Vietnam have been conducted since 1975? Let's also not forget those missions made by prominent Americans on behalf of POWs/MIAs. Perhaps now all those who made such missions, even on behalf of MIAs, can be subject to outright extortion.
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21-08-2004 12:22
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