27-08-2004 20:48									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Is this really true?

Yes. It's true that the Chechen war doesn't get much play in the US.

	27-08-2004 20:50									#92
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quote: It was probably Chechen seperatists, who don't always take responsibility, and this group is just looking to take advantage of that.

I heard that the Chechens usually declare responsibility right away.

	27-08-2004 20:50									#93
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Yes. It's true that the Chechen war doesn't get much play in the US.

but for what reason?

	27-08-2004 20:51									#94
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edit: ack! Crosspost. Emp Fab:

True, the Chechen thing is looked upon as an internal dispute, and one in which the Russians have not conducted themselves very well.

Still, the Chechens (some of 'em, anyway) appear to be adopting tactics from Al-Q, and it would behoove us all to cooperate in working against such things. Besides, if we help the Russians out here (to the extent we even can), then I'd dare say they might be more willing to help us out elsewhere.

-Arrian

	27-08-2004 20:52									#95
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Actually, it looks like the Chechen leader is denying responsibility.

Now Americans may become interested...though, really, its still probably a Chechen act.

EDIT: Crossposting is fun...

Arrian: I hope that that's the case. I haven't yet seen anything RE Bush talking to Putin.

	27-08-2004 20:56									#96
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We've already turned our back on them using fuel-air bombs on cities and the myriad of other human rights abuses they've committed in thier dirty war. What more do you want? Troops on the ground?

	27-08-2004 20:56									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian edit: ack! Crosspost. Emp Fab: True, the Chechen thing is looked upon as an internal dispute, and one in which the Russians have not conducted themselves very well. Still, the Chechens (some of 'em, anyway) appear to be adopting tactics from Al-Q, and it would behoove us all to cooperate in working against such things. Besides, if we help the Russians out here (to the extent we even can), then I'd dare say they might be more willing to help us out elsewhere. -Arrian

exactly!

remember in the beginning of this whole war on terror thing. It wasn't supposed to be just about the U.S. It was supposed to involve a cooperation from all nations intelligence agencies to root out terror no matter where it was. If we help them, they may help us later. Of course, if they don't want our help that is another matter.

	27-08-2004 20:58									#98
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Therein lies the difficulty... we don't like their Chechen war. Well, they don't like our Iraq war.

That doesn't preclude our intelligence agencies cooperating to try to prevent terror attacks, does it?

-Arrian

	27-08-2004 21:06									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Edan Actually, they crashed within 3 minutes of each other. From what I read, they took off fourty minutes apart. I'm guessing it was probably terrorism, but even if it isn't, the causes of the crashes are almost undoubtably connected somehow.

Thank you, Saw my mistake but figured what the hell.

	27-08-2004 21:33									#100
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Except that Russians in Chechnya are even more trigger happy, care even less about casualties and created the threat for themselves, after missing a very real opportunity to give them independence and have peace.

An interesting bit. I've heard many times phrases that US soldiers killed x insurgents. Russians never say they kill Chechens - they 'eliminate' them instead.

	27-08-2004 22:57									#101
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What is the US supposed to do?

I agree in co-operation to end terror attacks but if we are talking a terror attack that was planned and implemented completely inside Russia, I doubt th US could be of much practical assistance. Really how likely is it that the US would have inteligence sources within the Chechnians better than those Russia has?

	27-08-2004 23:49									#102
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Hence my caveat: to the extent we CAN help. I too doubt there is much we can do.

-Arrian

	27-08-2004 23:55									#103
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Obviously the Russians have been far too soft-handed with these Chechens-their failure to use nuclear weapons and chemical weapons to eliminate Chechnya all together has been a total failure....

	28-08-2004 00:36									#104
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Americans could share some experience, since they can't give Russians brains. Their handling of many situations (like the Oct 2002 hostage crisis) was horrible.

	28-08-2004 09:10									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident uhh, where did they put the explosives? up their vagina? They must have one big *****

Sorry, the Russians check there too...

	28-08-2004 22:12									#106
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My condolences to Serb and the Russian people...

	28-08-2004 22:26									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Americans could share some experience, since they can't give Russians brains. Their handling of many situations (like the Oct 2002 hostage crisis) was horrible.

how could they have handled the theatre situation better?

	28-08-2004 22:27									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Except that Russians in Chechnya are even more trigger happy, care even less about casualties and created the threat for themselves, after missing a very real opportunity to give them independence and have peace. An interesting bit. I've heard many times phrases that US soldiers killed x insurgents. Russians never say they kill Chechens - they 'eliminate' them instead.

Didn't the Russians pull out of Chechnya in I think 1997?

	28-08-2004 22:29									#109
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quote: Didn't the Russians pull out of Chechnya in I think 1997?

They did pull out once, but it's a tricky story. No one really knows who is to blame. Perhaps it's really that Chechens didn't work to build their nation in that time, or perhaps it's that the Russian administration didn't really want to let them. In any case, there will most definitely not be a pull out while Putin is there.


Oh, and both plane crashes are now confirmed as acts of terror.

	28-08-2004 22:33									#110
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Russians seem to have a different mindset.

Sortof a prideful, no holds barred, ruthless, win at all costs approach. The cost of life is measured differently than it is in the west.

Sometimes it works great, sometimes not

	28-08-2004 23:04									#111
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Because Russians still haven't learned to value human lifes and individuals, largely.

	28-08-2004 23:32									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: Didn't the Russians pull out of Chechnya in I think 1997? They did pull out once, but it's a tricky story. No one really knows who is to blame.

This "no one" must be just you, or the typical prejudiced westerner. Irrespective of how one may view the current Russian campaign there, it is crystal clear to any unbiased observer what happened in Chechnya in between the wars.

	30-08-2004 06:56									#113
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 My condolences to Serb and the Russian people...

Thank you.

	30-08-2004 06:58									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha how could they have handled the theatre situation better?

I guess he means that Russians missed a real opportunity to surrender to terrorists and instead of surrender killed those glorious freedom fighters.

	30-08-2004 07:03									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Americans could share some experience, since they can't give Russians brains. Their handling of many situations (like the Oct 2002 hostage crisis) was horrible.

You mean Americans should send some of their boys to Russia to educate Specnaz how to handle a hostage situation?

SWAT educating Specnaz how to deal with terrorists?

	30-08-2004 07:06									#116
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Actually, it looks like the Chechen leader is denying responsibility.

Who?

Chechens elected their leader yesterday but votes have not been counted yet.

	30-08-2004 07:24									#117
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It's easy for people to say this country or that had this comming to it but the people on board the planes didn't deserve to be killed any more than chechian civilians do. Whatever feelings I may have about Russia doing what it has done in Checnyia in the past is put aside by the fact that terrorist are terrorists and they need to be eliminated.

	30-08-2004 07:41									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber It's easy for people to say this country or that had this comming to it but the people on board the planes didn't deserve to be killed any more than chechian civilians do. Whatever feelings I may have about Russia doing what it has done in Checnyia in the past is put aside by the fact that terrorist are terrorists and they need to be eliminated.

	30-08-2004 09:05									#119
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terrorism is terrorism. I am surprised by the lack of sympathy towards the russians.

Or is it people only care when terrorism happens to the U.S.?

This is a major terrorist attack here! From the media, you'd think it's something routine.

	30-08-2004 09:07									#120
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We're the most powerful country in the world. If it doesn't happen to us (or effect us or israel), usually we don't carry it. Though if you'll check the BBC, they really don't have much on it either.