06-09-2004 06:42									#511
	Re: Re: Best editorial Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I think a president has the right to change his mind when such a dramatic event like 9-11 occurs. Before 9-11, a humble foreign policy seemed appropriate. After 9-11, it was not. The world changed. When the world changes, your foreign policy has to change too to match. What was Bush suppose to do, say "My fellow Americans, the humble foreign policy I promised is not appropriate anymore because of the events of 9-11, but I'll keep that flawed policy anyway because I promised"?

Yeah, the world changed. 9/11 had been coming, and anyone with slightest hint about the world knew it. One would expect a humble foreign policy to be planned with at least some form of hindsight.

	06-09-2004 06:46									#512
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Oncle Boris, I'm sure you expected a terrorist attack of such magnitude on the US

	06-09-2004 06:49									#513
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, some dudes with ceramic knives, that was so surprising. I mean, who could have guessed that terrorists like to hijack planes? It's not like they used any kind of high-tech or dangerous weaponry; they just were clever and efficient in using low-level techniques.

	06-09-2004 06:50									#514
	Re: Re: Re: Best editorial Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Yeah, the world changed. 9/11 had been coming, and anyone with slightest hint about the world knew it. One would expect a humble foreign policy to be planned with at least some form of hindsight.

Well hell, we knew the Japs were planning an attack as well, but that doesn't mean we knew it was going to be on Dec. 7, 1941. Nor, did that mean we should start selling them oil and scrap iron again. I mean, these scum sucking pigs (hehe, pigs) set off a bomb at the Tower's base some years earlier. Of course we knew they wanted to attack.

	06-09-2004 06:56									#515
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That's it man. You don't have to know the exact date. Mere wisdom is sufficient to understand that it's coming, and that the world hasn't really changed. Given that, Bush's statement was either a big lie or an incredibly incompetent plan.

	06-09-2004 07:03									#516
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris That's it man. You don't have to know the exact date. Mere wisdom is sufficient to understand that it's coming, and that the world hasn't really changed.

Yeah right.


Maybe with your 20/20 hindsight glasses on.

	06-09-2004 07:05									#517
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris That's it man. You don't have to know the exact date. Mere wisdom is sufficient to understand that it's coming, and that the world hasn't really changed. Given that, Bush's statement was either a big lie or an incredibly incompetent plan.

Right, but the environment wasn't conducive to pass such sweeping meausres to protect the homeland effeciently.

OMG! It is a conspiracy.

	06-09-2004 07:24									#518
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah right. Maybe with your 20/20 hindsight glasses on.

Look at me, Ted Striker, and tell me what has changed so much between 2000 and 2002 that will make you say that a "humble" foreign policy wasn't a) feasible anymore b) had ever been so, depending on where you lie on the political spectrum.

The American foreign policy has never been humble from the 20th century and will never be as long as you remain a significant power.

But still... could it be that many Americans are not open about the rest of the world, that they see their country as the center of the world? Funny, that's a stererotype I never heard.

Oh and... was it Noam Chomsky who wrote in 1992 that Muslim terrorism would inevitably strike America, and that the American leaders would probably use it to replace Communism as the n. 1 public fear? No, it wasn't him I guess!

	06-09-2004 07:30									#519
	Support Apolyton

I don't know what that other foreign policy crap you are talking about is.

But the one point I am making is that:

NOBODY could have predicted the Trade Center attacks on America, even though they had already bombed it years earlier.

Even non Americans, and that's why it was such a devastating attack because it caught us, ALL OF US, off guard.

Not even you could have predicted it Oracle

	06-09-2004 07:42									#520
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Look at me, Ted Striker, and tell me what has changed so much between 2000 and 2002 that will make you say that a "humble" foreign policy wasn't a) feasible anymore b) had ever been so, depending on where you lie on the political spectrum. The American foreign policy has never been humble from the 20th century and will never be as long as you remain a significant power.

You mean these senseless acts of violence are the result of arrogance? I'm sorry, but more would have to be inflicted uppon the "Muslim" world for me to accept such actions.

You mean that inorder for America to live in peace w/ these "Muslims" we must willfully not promote prosperity, along w/ other civilized nations, in the world.

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Oh and... was it Noam Chomsky who wrote in 1992 that Muslim terrorism would inevitably strike America, and that the American leaders would probably use it to replace Communism as the n. 1 public fear? No, it wasn't him I guess!

Should they have otherwise?

	06-09-2004 08:03									#521
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker NOBODY could have predicted the Trade Center attacks on America, even though they had already bombed it years earlier.

Open your eyes and realize that it's just not my point. Contrary to what many conservatives tend to believe, the world HADN'T changed - what had happened before in plenty of countries, including France, was just coming to America, and the specialist and diplomatic crowd knew it.

Maybe you just can't understand this Ted... but I'm not trying to make another discussion about whether or not 9/11 as an event could have been prevented. I don't care anyway. I'm saying that from a po sci perspective, the rise of Muslim integrism was a well known fact, and that nothing significant has really changed between the Bush and Clinton eras. The difference would be that as an ignorant, the typical American understood all of this the morning of 9/11. Now, would you vote for a president who is like the crowd of morons who can barely tell where is their country on a map of the world (indeed... studies have shown that nearly half of Americans have trouble situating their country on a world map).

quote: Even non Americans, and that's why it was such a devastating attack because it caught us, ALL OF US, off guard.

Especially those guys who wrote the memo for Bush in August...

quote: Not even you could have predicted it Oracle

FYI I had had debates with my friends where it emerged that some kind of clash with the Muslim world was unavoidable, and that the right would use it again as a tool of 'fascisation'.

	06-09-2004 08:05									#522
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by dojoboy You mean these senseless acts of violence are the result of arrogance? I'm sorry, but more would have to be inflicted uppon the "Muslim" world for me to accept such actions. You mean that inorder for America to live in peace w/ these "Muslims" we must willfully not promote prosperity, along w/ other civilized nations, in the world.

Never said anything close to this.

quote: Should they have otherwise?

I don't know... if I was American, my number 1 fear would be the uninterrupted serie of war criminals that have been leading my nation in the past 60 years. But I doubt that it's good campaign material.

	06-09-2004 08:06									#523
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Open your eyes and realize that it's just not my point. Contrary to what many conservatives tend to believe, the world HADN'T changed - what had happened before in plenty of countries, including France, was just coming to America, and the specialist and diplomatic crowd knew it. Maybe you just can't understand this Ted... but I'm not trying to make another discussion about whether or not 9/11 as an event could have been prevented. I don't care anyway. I'm saying that from a po sci perspective, the rise of Muslim integrism was a well known fact, and that nothing significant has really changed between the Bush and Clinton eras. The difference would be that as an ignorant, the typical American understood all of this the morning of 9/11. Now, would you vote for a president who is like the crowd of morons who can barely tell where is their country on a map of the world (indeed... studies have shown that nearly half of Americans have trouble situating their country on a world map). Especially those guys who wrote the memo for Bush in August... FYI I had had debates with my friends where it emerged that some kind of clash with the Muslim world was unavoidable, and that the right would use it again as a tool of 'fascisation'.

I think the point you are trying to make is that you think Americans are ignorant and stupid morons and you are superior to all of them.

Well done, Oracle

	06-09-2004 08:10									#524
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris If I was American, my number 1 fear would be the uninterrupted serie of war criminals that have been leading my nation in the past 60 years. But I doubt that it's good campaign material.

	06-09-2004 08:15									#525
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

I'm back...

It seems like the democrats screwed up their chances in the election. Ouch. Kerry faltered so badly as of late... and I must admit.. a week ago, I would say he was a pretty decent campaigner. But what happened? He tripped and messed up pretty badly.

	06-09-2004 09:03									#526
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Never said anything close to this.

Oh, okay. I must've read into it my own...stuff. Apologies.

	06-09-2004 10:02									#527
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker

It is thoroughly documented that most American presidents are Hague fodder. But it's a big anyway. If you don't want to see reality then do whatever suits you.