01-09-2004 19:09									#1
	Is Sims 2 Biased? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've pre-ordered Sims 2. ($10 off if I pre-order).

But I'm concerned the game is biased. Biased like an American Girls Wet Dream. (Yes I know, girls can't have wet dreams).


Judging from what I know about the game, it seems that you have a successful life if you either: have a family, are rich, are popular, are intelligent or ... I think its being wild?

But I disagree. First, I don't want to be rich, infact I don't think being rich means you are successful. Same with being popular. Having a family doesn't mean being successful, but it's good to have a family. Being intelligent is different, it's good to have knowledge, the success comes with knowing a lot. But having a lot of money should not determine having a good life or a fulfilled life.



Shutup Sn00py. Ok, what I am trying to say is. I want to be a slob, I want to have no job, I want to hate people and I want them to hate me. etc etc.

But I am afraid, this game might not let me do this, and it might think that if people hate me, then I will be depressed, but this is not the case. I would be HAPPY to have people hate me.

So my question is, can I do this or is this game biased like an American Girls Wet Dream?

P.S. I don't actually live like a slob and I don't actually hate people. I just want to play the game that way.

	01-09-2004 19:16									#2
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Choose the dark side of the force then!

Er, can you not cancel your preorder though. It wouldn't strike me as a particularly sensible move. Unless you really, really enjoyed the first one. And did anyone here - apart from DrSpike?

	01-09-2004 19:17									#3
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in RL happiness from wealth is heavily related to personal and social expectations, and diminishes beyond some point. And have some close friends and relationships is more important than being popular. Doubt their psychological model is that sophisticated. It is more wish fulfilment, what if i could have heaps of money, or if I was the most popular kid? Sells better that way.


Kinda like which sells better, games like Civ where you conquer the world with your legions, or games like EU where you conquer a province, and stop for years to absorb it.

	01-09-2004 19:22									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Spikie sighting in 5, 4, 3...

Your character's happiness is a measure of their ability to get a promotion, first and foremost. If you hate people and enjoy them hating you, chances are you won't be getting promoted anytime soon. Not that you would want to be, either.

It doesn't really imply a judgement call though. Your sim just is. If they are a slob and have not been promoted for years, so what? You don't get penalised beyond not having as much income and having other people complain about you.

	01-09-2004 19:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Choose the dark side of the force then! Er, can you not cancel your preorder though. It wouldn't strike me as a particularly sensible move. Unless you really, really enjoyed the first one. And did anyone here - apart from DrSpike?

Yes I can cancel it, but I don't think Sims 2 is going to be much like Sims 1. They do appear to be significantly different in terms of gameplay.

If Sims 1 were released with ALL of its addons as part of the actual game (so no add ons), then Sims 1 would have been a much greater game, it would have lasted longer for those who got bored with it quickly.

I got bored with Sims 1 after about 2-3 weeks and never played it again.

	01-09-2004 20:27									#6
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In The Sims 2 it's not all Sims who get a 'higher score' if they get rich or have a great family... some people prefer money, others prefer other things... exactly what they can prefer/hate in that game is still unknown until the game has been released, but there should be a huge list...


But if you didn't play The Sims 1 much, why did you even preorder the second game? Wouldn't it be better to wait for some reviews about the game, before buying it?

	01-09-2004 23:19									#7
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It's still logical, to a degree. You can reasonably assume that a person with enough money, a family and a good work is happier than a person with no friends, just enough money for a living and a bad job. Usually, it goes that way.

Besides, most people's idea of happiness is far too deep to be mirrored in a game. Take family, for instance. Yes, family is on my list of things to be happy. There are, however, tons of nuissances there. I can't say "I want a family to be happy". It breaks up into a lot more detail - I want my wife to be a nice personality, I want my kids to grow up respecting my values, etc., etc.

	01-09-2004 23:57									#8
	Re: Is Sims 2 Biased? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py I've pre-ordered Sims 2. ($10 off if I pre-order).

I stopped reading after this.

	01-09-2004 23:58									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Spikie sighting in 5, 4, 3...

2, 1.

	02-09-2004 03:09									#10
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snoopy needs to play a decent RPG where he can be a badass mofo instead of wasting precious lifetime on the $ims

	02-09-2004 03:42									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You could be a career slob in the first Sims game.

	02-09-2004 05:11									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Solver It's still logical, to a degree. You can reasonably assume that a person with enough money, a family and a good work is happier than a person with no friends, just enough money for a living and a bad job. Usually, it goes that way. Besides, most people's idea of happiness is far too deep to be mirrored in a game. Take family, for instance. Yes, family is on my list of things to be happy. There are, however, tons of nuissances there. I can't say "I want a family to be happy". It breaks up into a lot more detail - I want my wife to be a nice personality, I want my kids to grow up respecting my values, etc., etc.

I usually respect your posts Solver, but this post of yours is showing some... narrow vision.

You say a person with a family is happier than one without. This is wrong. There are millions of people around the world (and in our western culture) who don't want a family and are very happy in their life.

You said a person with enough money is happier than one who has just enough money for a living.
This is also wrong. There are countless millions in the world who are dirt poor and are happier than the richest people in the world.

It's been voted the worst job in the world. A zoologist in Singapore has to masterbate the animals at the Singapore Zoo for science reasons. But he is happy.
What about the asian farmers? I'm sure they work harder in one day than any of us work in one week - and they are happy!

This is why I said American Dream in my first post. The "American Dream" is the "standard" of what it is to be "happy". It's so pathetic and wrong. It's just disgusting.


This game is biased towards the American Dream. If you have family, money, fame, knowledge or a wild life you must be happy. If you don't have any or all of these, you must be unhappy.

Oh and knowledge doesn't make you happy either. Often when I see mentally challenged people, they seem to all be having a great time with each other having some sort of fun or game - and yet when I see a person who is not mentally challenged, they're only happy when they're drunk or when someone ELSE loves them back. Conditional and screwed up.


I'm not just getting the game for me, there are other ppl who want to play it. I don't mind spending the money on it.

	02-09-2004 05:13									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Trajanus snoopy needs to play a decent RPG where he can be a badass mofo instead of wasting precious lifetime on the $ims

There are RPG's out there worse than Sims.

I doubt I am wasting my precious time by playing Sims 2 for a few weeks. (well, we'll find out when I get it).

	02-09-2004 10:18									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yep... Comrade is correct. After all, since so many people want and strive for family and money, it makes sense that usually those are the things that lead to happiness.

	02-09-2004 14:17									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ha! I'd like to see that zoologist mod the OT.

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I stopped reading after this.

Liar! You posted a reply to Skanky immediately afterwards.

Sorry Sn00py - I don't think that you came to the right place to debate the possibility of the Sims 2 actually turning out to be a good game.

	02-09-2004 15:08									#16
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Nah, this is the perfect place. The negative reviews put things into perspective.


I know that Solver said usually, but I took it as being "what should be".

	02-09-2004 15:54									#17
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maybe you can make a nihilism mod...

	02-09-2004 16:59									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Liar! You posted a reply to Skanky immediately afterwards.

Only because I knew he'd say something about me.

	02-09-2004 18:42									#19
	Got spare money?

So the Sims punishes you for being a layabout wastrel who spends most of their time playing computer games?
Can your avatar sit around and play the Sims all day then? That would be almost too beautiful in its irony.

	03-09-2004 03:45									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Shutup Sn00py. Ok, what I am trying to say is. I want to be a slob, I want to have no job, I want to hate people and I want them to hate me. etc etc.

Then activate cheat mode.

	03-09-2004 05:23									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I certainly don't spend most of my time playing computer games, or the Sims all day for that matter.

sheesh


cheating stuffs the game

	03-09-2004 19:00									#22
	Tired of ads?

Snoopy, I said usually there and meant it. I didn't say it should be like that, because, well, it shouldn't, and I myself have quite some non-standard things that make me happy.

I think, however, you will agree that I'm right in saying that usually people want families and a good job to be happy.

	03-09-2004 19:12									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oh, for the record, one of the reasons I hate Sims is how much is dumbs down happiness and relationships. There, you date a girl, buy her presents, talk with her, etc., and you have her fall in love with you. Relationships (not only romantic ones) are SO MUCH more complex in real-life, no game can hope to emulate those...

	03-09-2004 19:28									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You mean people are buying the seems for the relationship part?

	03-09-2004 19:57									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It's a game, silly. And a good one too, I think(Sims2). No 1 was good, but didn't last as long as many other games for my part. I really look forward to Sims2 though.

	04-09-2004 09:16									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Only because I knew he'd say something about me.

That is a very good excuse, and we have no reason to question its validity whatsoever.

	04-09-2004 09:24									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Blah, all I know is that I have a computer that won't run Sims 2 and I'm not going to bother to update for it (when it does finally get ported to the Mac.)

Sims 1 wasn't/isn't bad. Still play it every once and a while, but what I have the most fun doing is designing homes by just cheating and building.

I honestly tried to 'challenge' myself and build a home for 8 adults from scratch with no cheats and just couldn't manage it, I got bored with them all screaming about wanting to go to the bathroom at the same time.

To me, Sims 2 looks like it's even worse than 1 as far as just being about sex. Where are all the fat people taking up the entire loveseat!?

	04-09-2004 13:46									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

I liked the challenges of taking 8 adults (female) into one house, denying all of them to go outside (and thereby they can't get a job either)... all the money had to be made from painting an such
Tough, but fun

Btw, what's the min reqs. for this game?

	04-09-2004 14:14									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns That is a very good excuse, and we have no reason to question its validity whatsoever.

Good.

	04-09-2004 16:25									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio Btw, what's the min reqs. for this game?

Good question, I did a search:

If you have a T&L capable video card with at least 32 MB of video RAM then you need at least:

* 800 MHz processor or better
* 256 MB RAM if Windows XP, Windows ME, Windows 98 or Windows 2000
* At least 3.5 GB of hard drive space

If you have a non-T&L capable video card (an Intel Extreme Graphics or a Radeon 7000/VE Series) then you need at least:

* 2.0 GHz processor or better
* 256 MB RAM if Windows XP, Windows ME, Windows 98, or Windows 2000
* At least 3.5 GB of hard drive space



I like the sims mainly because it cracks me up. I love it when people are suffering/annoyed, etc. It cracks me up.

In one game, I got so sick of one of the guys I had, that I build a one tile room outside somewhere, put him in there and replaced the door with a wall.

Not long after he died.


The thing with Sims 2 though is that I think if I did the same thing as above, there would be a lot more depth to it. That's why I am interested in Sims 2 - the depthness.

I doubt I will ever go down the love-making road. I will completely avoid any sort of love relationship.

I am just worried that Sims 2 is half love relationship based; because afterall, this game is targetted at the girls.

If it is, I'll just sell the game or give it to a girl.