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Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 02-09-2004 09:53
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Got spare money?

Wow... all it takes is that to confuse you... should have guessed from your posts .

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 10:06
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You haven't been acting like much of a Republican lately, what with your "anyone but Bush" rhetoric.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 10:14
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I'm sorry, but since when did Bush become the model for every Republican? I should probably tell Olympia Snowe that she is runing the singularity of Republicans which is shown by fearless leader Bush .

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 10:17
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I'm not saying he should be the model, just that a Republican might be expected to actually give their party's candidate a chance, especially when running against a complete douchebag like Kerry. It's not hard to see why people might think you are a Democrat, with the way you've been posting lately.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 10:22
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Suffering from ads?

You mean saying that my perfect Presidential candidate is John McCain and then Colin Powell shows I'm a Democrat? Though I guess you are correct in that people do view those who back Kerry in this debate as being Democrats. I just don't like prefacing everything with "I'm a lifelong Republican, but..."

All I'm saying is that I dislike Bush and this administration. I'd vote for any moderate Republican over Kerry. Unfortunetly one isn't running.

Mr. Nice Guy is offline Mr. Nice Guy
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 10:39
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Suffering from ads?

Imran, are you one of those log-cabin Republicans?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 10:50
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Has Mr. Fun been telling stories about me again?

No, I'm not gay, but I got no problem with the Log Cabin Republicans. More power to 'em.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 11:58
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quote:
A misconception on your part. Miller is exactly what the majority of American's are, an both sides, and that is a simple non complex person. He expressed very straight forward concerns like family that the average person can understand. Nothing slick or subtle here, no Dennis Miller type referances or the like, just staight talk. He is exactly what we need, someone who wears his mind on his sleeve.

In fact it is so straight forward it will probobly go over the average liberals head.

Though if you were watching CNN he sort of got blind sided right after the VPs speech. Wasn't good.


this guy is about as straight as Dick Cheney's daughter.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 13:19
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Having read his books, this sort of speech is nothing new by Zell Miller.

Give 'em hell, Zell!

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 13:22
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I just saw it on PBS. That was a scorcher.

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 14:00
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Getting angry at Dems for being partisan ignores the fact that both parties are extremely partisan. Pot meet Kettle.

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by ixnay
Kerry must have done a lot in the past 3 years to piss Miller off so much:

quote:
Introduction of Senator John Kerry

Democratic Party of Georgia's
Jefferson-Jackson Dinner

March 1, 2001

It is good to be back in Georgia and to be with you. I have been coming to these dinners since the 1950s, and have missed very few.

I'm proud to be Georgia's junior senator and I'm honored to serve with Max Cleland, who is as loved and respected as anyone in that body. One of our very highest priorities must be to make sure this man is re-elected in 2002 so he can continue to serve this state and nation.

I continue to be impressed with all that Governor Barnes and Lieutenant Governor Taylor and the Speaker and the General Assembly are getting done over at the Gold Dome. Georgia is fortunate to have this kind of leadership.

My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders – and a good friend.

He was once a lieutenant governor – but he didn't stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984.

In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington.

Early in his Senate career in 1986, John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so.

John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a member of its "Digital Dozen."

John was re-elected in 1990 and again in 1996 – when he defeated popular Republican Governor William Weld in the most closely watched Senate race in the country.

John is a graduate of Yale University and was a gunboat officer in the Navy. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three awards of the Purple Heart for combat duty in Vietnam. He later co-founded the Vietnam Veterans of America.

He is married to Teresa Heinz and they have two daughters.

As many of you know, I have great affection – some might say an obsession – for my two Labrador retrievers, Gus and Woodrow. It turns out John is a fellow dog lover, too, and he better be. His German Shepherd, Kim, is about to have puppies. And I just want him to know … Gus and Woodrow had nothing to do with that.

Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Senator John Kerry.


http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

OMG FLIP FLOP


Yes, Kerry and others did a hell of a lot to piss him off, and I think he outlined it quite clearly in his speech last night.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 16:08 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
All I'm saying is that I dislike Bush and this administration. I'd vote for any moderate Republican over Kerry. Unfortunetly one isn't running.

Yeah there's a lot of those "anyone but Kerry" votes.........

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 17:39 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Trnascript of Miller's speach:

Since I last stood in this spot, a whole new generation of the Miller Family has been born: Four great grandchildren.

Along with all the other members of our close-knit family -- they are my and Shirley's most precious possessions.

And I know that's how you feel about your family also.

Like you, I think of their future, the promises and the perils they will face.

Like you, I believe that the next four years will determine what kind of world they will grow up in.

And like you, I ask which leader is it today that has the vision, the willpower and, yes, the backbone to best protect my family?

The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight. For my family is more important than my party.

There is but one man to whom I am willing to entrust their future and that man's name is

George Bush.

In the summer of 1940, I was an eight-year-old boy living in a remote little Appalachian valley.

Our country was not yet at war but even we children knew that there were some crazy men across the ocean who would kill us if they could.

President Roosevelt, in his speech that summer, told America "all private plans, all private lives, have been in a sense repealed by an overriding public danger."

In 1940 Wendell Wilkie was the Republican nominee.

And there is no better example of someone repealing their "private plans" than this good man.

He gave Roosevelt the critical support he needed for a peacetime draft, an unpopular idea at the time.

And he made it clear that he would rather lose the election than make national security a partisan campaign issue.

Shortly before Wilkie died he told a friend, that if he could write his own epitaph and had to choose between "here lies a president" or "here lies one who contributed to saving freedom", he would prefer the latter.

Where are such statesmen today?

Where is the bi-partisanship in this country when we need it most?

Now, while young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrat's manic obsession to bring down our Commander-in-Chief.

What has happened to the party I've spent my life working in?

I can remember when Democrats believed that it was the duty of America to fight for freedom over tyranny.

It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city.

Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. But not today.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. And, our soldiers don't just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home.

For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag.

No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home.

But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution.

They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.

It is not their patriotism - it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking. They claimed Carter's pacifism would lead to peace.

They were wrong.

They claimed Reagan's defense buildup would lead to war.

They were wrong.

And, no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

Together, Kennedy/Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that is now winning the War on Terror.

Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security but Americans need to know the facts.

The B-1 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, dropped 40% of the bombs in the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The B-2 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Hussein's command post in Iraq.

The F-14A Tomcats, that Senator Kerry opposed, shot down Khadifi's Libyan MIGs over the Gulf of Sidra. The modernized F-14D, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered missile strikes against Tora Bora.

The Apache helicopter, that Senator Kerry opposed, took out those Republican Guard tanks in Kuwait in the Gulf War. The F-15 Eagles, that Senator Kerry opposed, flew cover over our Nation's Capital and this very city after 9/11.

I could go on and on and on: Against the Patriot Missile that shot down Saddam Hussein's scud missiles over Israel, Against the Aegis air-defense cruiser, Against the Strategic Defense Initiative, Against the Trident missile, against, against, against.

This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?

U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric.

Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside.

Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.

That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world.

Free for how long?

For more than twenty years, on every one of the great issues of freedom and security, John Kerry has been more wrong, more weak and more wobbly than any other national figure. As a war protestor, Kerry blamed our military.

As a Senator, he voted to weaken our military. And nothing shows that more sadly and more clearly than his vote this year to deny protective armor for our troops in harms way, far-away.

George Bush understands that we need new strategies to meet new threats.

John Kerry wants to re-fight yesterday's war. George Bush believes we have to fight today's war and be ready for tomorrow's challenges. George Bush is committed to providing the kind of forces it takes to root out terrorists.

No matter what spider hole they may hide in or what rock they crawl under.

George Bush wants to grab terrorists by the throat and not let them go to get a better grip.

From John Kerry, they get a "yes-no-maybe" bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends.

I first got to know George Bush when we served as governors together. I admire this man.

I am moved by the respect he shows the First Lady, his unabashed love for his parents and his daughters, and the fact that he is unashamed of his belief that God is not indifferent to America.

I can identify with someone who has lived that line in "Amazing Grace," "Was blind, but now I see," and I like the fact that he's the same man on Saturday night that he is on Sunday morning.

He is not a slick talker but he is a straight shooter and, where I come from, deeds mean a lot more than words.

I have knocked on the door of this man's soul and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel.

The man I trust to protect my most precious possession: my family.

This election will change forever the course of history, and that's not any history. It's our family's history.

The only question is how. The answer lies with each of us. And, like many generations before us, we've got some hard choosing to do.

Right now the world just cannot afford an indecisive America. Fainthearted, self-indulgence will put at risk all we care about in this world.

In this hour of danger our President has had the courage to stand up. And this Democrat is proud to stand up with him.

Thank you.

God Bless this great country and God Bless George W. Bush.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 18:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk


Yes, Kerry and others did a hell of a lot to piss him off, and I think he outlined it quite clearly in his speech last night.


He outlined his positions as to what the Democratic party did to him and fellow southern democrats in his book. Point being he has legitamate gripes how the democratic party doesn't represent southern dems, as was evidenced by Kerry's comments that he doesn't need the south to win the presidency. Not the best soundbite for the party of "inclusion".


Which raises the question is loyalty expected or earned?

and

Who flipped and flopped, Zell or the Dem party?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 18:08 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I don't care. Both your parties suck ass.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 18:27 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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"There was a lot of hate coming from that podium tonight," Senator John Edwards said late Wednesday, after Vice President Dick Cheney and keynote speaker Sen. Zell Miller told an enthusiastic crowd of Republicans why Sen. John F. Kerry should not be trusted to lead America. "What John Kerry and I offer to the American people is hope....

Now they are the party of hope? Maybe they can just hope that the troops have enough money to fight a war that Kerry approved of. And if you don't like the record of Kerry you can always accuse those of exposing it as being hateful. Kerry is imploding. Good riddance. And I say that with love.

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 18:27
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Wow, this guy is so out of touch he metions Ted Kennedy as the great Liberal boogeyman

I doubt seriously that a speech of this type will convince any moderates to back anyone Miller backs.

I must say thought it seems someone pumped some uppers into Cheney's embalming fluid, cause he seemed a lot more relaxed and active in his speech last night.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
I must say thought it seems someone pumped some uppers into Cheney's embalming fluid, cause he seemed a lot more relaxed and active in his speech last night.


relaxed at ease if you will....


Yep, that normally happens when your in front of a freindly audience as opposed to the hack media he normally faces.

Jaguar is offline Jaguar
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 19:57
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Wow, this guy is so out of touch he metions Ted Kennedy as the great Liberal boogeyman

I doubt seriously that a speech of this type will convince any moderates to back anyone Miller backs.

Actually, it brought me back a little towards Bush. Right now I'm 50-50, as opposed to preferring Kerry by a little a few nights ago.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Wow, this guy is so out of touch he metions Ted Kennedy as the great Liberal boogeyman

You mean Ted isn't a boogeyman?

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
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  Old Post 02-09-2004 20:03
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Tired of ads?

There is always going to be a problem with fiery speeches. What they normally do is whip up your own followers rather than atteact new ones. Good to keep votes, no so much to win them. But they followed up Miller with a speech of a totally differnent calibre. That abrupt change in emotion may be very effective.

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 20:12 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
But they followed up Miller with a speech of a totally differnent calibre. That abrupt change in emotion may be very effective.

I agree, it made Cheney look kinda warm and fuzzy. An interesting contrast between the Democrat speaker and Republican speaker. Still, I await the reactions over the next few days.

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i've always liked zell. he was a kickass governor. as senator, i might not have agreed with him 100%, but i have never regretting voting him for office a few years ago.

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  Old Post 02-09-2004 22:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar

Actually, it brought me back a little towards Bush. Right now I'm 50-50, as opposed to preferring Kerry by a little a few nights ago.


You can't even vote, so you don't matter.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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  Old Post 03-09-2004 19:20
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One of the better analysis on Zell's speech

quote:

ZellzaPoppin'
Jonah Goldberg (archive)


September 3, 2004 | Print | Send


First off, as a journalist, let me take the time to do what no other pundit has been willing to do: to thank Georgia Sen. Zell Miller for being named Zell. It's been a long time since a politician occasioned such euphoria over euphony in political commentary. From the conservatives I've already heard "Give 'em Zell!" "Zell it like it is!" "Zelling it Old School!" From the other side of the aisle we've had "Zellotry" and "Zell-out." And who the Zell knows what else is coming down the pike - Zello-Dolly?

So thank you, Sen. Miller (or your parents), because on this teeny-tiny point you, sir, are a uniter not a divider. And had you been christened Cleophus, the partisan divide would be just that much wider today.

Of course, Zell did some serious widening himself. His speech here Wednesday night was straight out of the Atkins diet cookbook: all red meat. As political theater, most observers here found the speech marvelous. Where they differ is on the question of whether or not it was smart.

The instant reaction from liberal and anti-Bush journalists, as well as the DNC, was that Miller was as bad as or worse than Pat Buchanan. DNC Chair Terry McAuliffe noted that at least Buchanan smiled in 1992 when he gave his (now somewhat undeservedly) infamous speech at that year's convention.

Matthew Yglesias of the American Prospect, dripping with nuance, denounced the speech as a "fascistic tirade." The New Republic openly compared Miller to Joe McCarthy. Jonathan Cohn explained that Miller was much worse than Buchanan because "Buchanan's speech, after all, was an assault on decency. Last night Miller declared war on democracy." Time magazine's Joe Klein declared on CNN, "I don't think I've seen anything as angry or as ugly as Miller's speech."

Andrew Sullivan, a senior editor at the New Republic and a highly regarded blogger, noted the contrast between the Dem's Boston keynoter, Barack Obama - "a post-racial, smiling, expansive young American" - and the Republicans. "Then you see Zell Miller," Sullivan continued, "his face rigid with anger, his eyes blazing with years of frustration as his Dixiecrat vision became slowly eclipsed among the Democrats. Remember who this man is: once a proud supporter of racial segregation, a man who lambasted LBJ for selling his soul to the negroes."

This last bit is amusing, since Zell Miller was once considered a Southern statesmen by liberals because as governor he was willing to take the politically courageous step of removing the Confederate Battle Flag from the Georgia state flag. Indeed, Sullivan's magazine dubbed Miller "as reasonable a Democrat as there is." And Miller's stemwinder of a speech at the Democratic Convention in 1992 - in which he grilled the first President Bush ("If the 'education President' gets another term, even our kids won't be able to spell potato") - didn't provoke any assaults on his humanity.

In other words, when Democrats are mean or harsh they are labeled as passionate populists or some such. When Republicans are, they get called things like "Cotton Mather behind the cross" (Maureen Dowd's words). What is "righteous anger" for Democrats becomes "hate" when offered by Republicans (or, in this case, by like-minded Democrats.)

Now, none of this is to say that Miller's speech wasn't stern stuff. But was it really, in Sullivan's words, "gob-smackingly vile"? (Translation for the un-British: very vile). This charge rests on the assertion that Miller was questioning the patriotism of Kerry and the Democratic leadership (not rank-and-file Democrats, as so many commentators seem to think), despite such qualifiers as: "It is not their patriotism - it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking."

Both strategically and substantively, I think the speech probably crossed the line in parts. Substantively, it clearly painted with too broad a brush, at times suggesting Kerry & Co. are more than merely wrong but are actually hostile to America. And, strategically, I think the style went a bit too far. If there had been a bit less Southern wrath and a bit more Southern charm it might have been even more effective.

However, in part because Kerry's left his record undefended, Miller's speech was effective (and not that much more negative than, say, Al Sharpton's in Boston). The focus group "real Americans" I saw on TV were impressed, and I bet lots of other Americans were too. The question is whether that impression will be revised in the next few weeks as the Democrats and the media try to spin this as a disaster.

Indeed, the Republicans took a big gamble when they decided to give 'em Zell at this convention. If a Republican had delivered a speech half as relentless, the media and the Democrats would have colluded to make it the only story of the week. The Republicans calculated that a respected Democrat would be inoculated because, again, Democrats are never, ever, mean - even when they suggest Republicans are baby-killers (as Jesse Jackson did at the 1992 convention). So by concentrating all of their ammo in one sustained blast of Zellfire, they gambled that the usual counterspin about Republican "hate" wouldn't wash.

Only time will Zell if they were right.


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  Old Post 03-09-2004 19:25
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Zell's post speech behavior does not help stop the spin of him an an angry, angry, hatefilled man.

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  Old Post 03-09-2004 20:39 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Zell's post speech behavior does not help stop the spin of him an an angry, angry, hatefilled man.

His speech style has always been about the same, very "impassioned," he was just as impassioned in his speech for Bill Clinton when he hoped Bill would bring the party back from the extreme left.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 03-09-2004 20:41
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#59 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Zell's post speech behavior does not help stop the spin of him an an angry, angry, hatefilled man.


Zell IS angry. What is wrong with that? He feels (and rightly so IMO) that his party has betrayed him and its core values. His impassioned speech is a good thing. Democrats need to wake up and take notice as to what is going on in there party.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
Deity
I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 03-09-2004 21:16 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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#60 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Zell's been around a long time. When he got started in politics this type of speech wasn't abnormal.

 
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