09-09-2004 02:25									#91
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Caught one!

	09-09-2004 03:25									#92
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Obviously you all don't appreciate what Cheney said. It was taken out of context. What he meant to say was:

"Our country will be safer from terrorists if GW Bush is elected because of the tax cuts."

	09-09-2004 05:15									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly If McCain we're running for president against a Dem who weaseled out of service in Nam, do you think he'd be talking about Nam much? My guess is that he'd never shut up about it, just the same way that Bob Dole's '96 campaign was coated in WWII nostalgia designed to distinguish him from that year's draft-dodging prez. That's just politics. But the difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton never questioned Dole's service or patriotism, whereas the Bushies have had the audacity to orchestrate smears against at least three men with distiguished war records (Kerry, McCain, and max Cleland). That's right: the difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton has some shred of decency left.

Not when a female was around.

	09-09-2004 05:19									#94
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat You can't take measurements in front of a house. Do arabs in your neighborhood all wear beards and turbans and salwar kameez or jubba? Or do you just see greasy looking brown people and decide "let's get the sand niggers!" Unless you have a damn good reason more than three men making a sketch, if you draw a weapon on three people, let alone "shoot them if they do anything stupid" you deservedly would get your ass locked up. Otherwise, every would-be cowboy would be popping every brown person who might look like an arab.

In Napa, I would get a pat on the back.

	09-09-2004 09:44									#95
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiheral...ics/9601875.htm quote: Cheney Warns Against Vote for Kerry AMY LORENTZEN Associated Press DES MOINES, Iowa - Vice President Dick Cheney on Tuesday warned Americans about voting for Democratic Sen. John Kerry, saying that if the nation makes the wrong choice on Election Day it faces the threat of another terrorist attack. The Kerry-Edwards campaign immediately rejected those comments as "scare tactics" that crossed the line. "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States," Cheney told about 350 supporters at a town-hall meeting in this Iowa city. If Kerry were elected, Cheney said the nation risks falling back into a "pre-9/11 mind-set" that terrorist attacks are criminal acts that require a reactive approach. Instead, he said Bush's offensive approach works to root out terrorists where they plan and train, and pressure countries that harbor terrorists. Cheney pointed to Afghanistan as a success story in pursuing terrorists although the Sept. 11 mastermind, Osama bin Laden, remains at large. In Iraq, the vice president said, the United States has taken out a leader who used weapons of mass destruction against his own people and harbored other terrorists. "Saddam Hussein today is in jail, which is exactly where he belongs," Cheney said. Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards issued a statement, saying, "Dick Cheney's scare tactics crossed the line today, showing once again that he and George Bush will do anything and say anything to save their jobs. Protecting America from vicious terrorists is not a Democratic or Republican issue and Dick Cheney and George Bush should know that." Edwards added that he and Kerry "will keep American safe, and we will not divide the American people to do it." The candidates are campaigning hard for Iowa's seven electoral votes. Democrat Al Gore narrowly won the state in 2000. Bush has campaigned in the state five times in the last month, and Cheney has made three stops. Hours before Cheney spoke, the Congressional Budget Office said this year's federal deficit will hit a record $422 billion. Cheney, in praising Bush's tax cuts, noted that the CBO said this year's projected deficit will be smaller than analysts had expected. Jesus. Everytime I think the republicans couldn't sink any lower they go and pull something like this...

Here's the full quote of what Cheney said, in case anyone is interested...

quote: Because if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again, that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States, and that we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mind set if you will, that in fact these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts, and that we're not really at war. I think that would be a terrible mistake for us.

http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/006678.shtml#006678

Jesus. Everytime I think the press couldn't sink any lower, they and go and pull something like this...

	09-09-2004 09:53									#96
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Drake...uh, please tell me how continuing the quote doesn't insinuate that voting for Kerry is the "wrong choice" that he is talking about?

	09-09-2004 10:04									#97
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The orginal quote (cut off in mid-sentence, mind you) makes it look like Cheney is saying that electing Kerry will lead to a catastrophic terrorist attack on the country. That's an outrageous statement.

Of course, Cheney didn't mean that, as the full quote shows. His point was that if Kerry was elected and there was a major terror attack, there is a danger that Kerry might go back to the pre-9/11 strategy of treating terrorism as a criminal activity rather than an act of war on this country.

Reading the whole quote makes you view Cheney's statement in a wholly different way, the way Cheney meant for you to view them. The press obviously doesn't want us to hear what Cheney really had to say, given that they cut off Cheney's statement in the middle of the sentence to make him look bad.

	09-09-2004 10:23									#98
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quote: Of course, Cheney didn't mean that, as the full quote shows. His point was that if Kerry was elected and there was a major terror attack, there is a danger that Kerry might go back to the pre-9/11 strategy of treating terrorism as a criminal activity rather than an act of war on this country.

Yes, treating a criminal activity as a criminal activity, oh the horror .

	09-09-2004 10:25									#99
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Some people still view terrorism as a criminal activity, true. Many people don't, however, and that's why Cheney brought it up. I'm not comfortable with having a Commander in Chief who would treat terrorism as a mere crime even after September 11th. I think the majority of Americans feel the same way.

	09-09-2004 10:30									#100
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I can't wait for all the stories about the democrats statements that Bush is going to bankrupt the country, destroy the economy, take away your social security, elminate the bill of rights, outlaw abortion etc. I'm sure the press will be equally outraged by the hyperbole on both sides. Right?

	09-09-2004 10:32									#101
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quote: I'm sure the press will be equally outraged by the hyperbole on both sides. Right?

	09-09-2004 12:00									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Of course, Cheney didn't mean that, as the full quote shows. His point was that if Kerry was elected and there was a major terror attack, there is a danger that Kerry might go back to the pre-9/11 strategy of treating terrorism as a criminal activity rather than an act of war on this country.

Right. Instead, we need a war president -- one who knows that, when the Japs bomb Pearl Harbor, the appropriate response is a half-assed invasion of Spain.

	09-09-2004 12:05									#103
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quote: Instead, we need a war president -- one who knows that, when the Japs bomb Pearl Harbor, the appropriate response is a half-assed invasion of Spain.

Or a president who knows that, when the Japs bomb Pearl Harbor, the appropriate response is to take care of the Germans first?

	09-09-2004 12:10									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Instead, we need a war president -- one who knows that, when the Japs bomb Pearl Harbor, the appropriate response is a half-assed invasion of Spain. Or a president who knows that, when the Japs bomb Pearl Harbor, the appropriate response is to take care of the Germans first?

Except that the Germans had weapons of mass destruction...

	09-09-2004 12:13									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Except that the Germans had weapons of mass destruction...

And they actually, you know DECLARED WAR ON US.

	09-09-2004 13:13									#106
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So did Iraq. Hell, we were still technically in a state of war with Iraq.

	09-09-2004 13:25									#107
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which you declared in 90-91 btw ...

	09-09-2004 13:32									#108
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Which the UN declared in 90-91...

	09-09-2004 19:05									#109
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We never declared war on Iraq. Funds were authorized to use force, that's all.

	09-09-2004 22:19									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Wouldn't it make it easier to catch the Timothy McVeighs that are out there? We can't rely on foreign intelligence for all of our terrorist tips.

How so? FISA has also worked for domestic intelligence gathering, and we don't have the allocated budgets to do the kind of massive, real-time surveillance to pre-empt all the potential McVeighs out there.

Oklahoma City and 9/11 weren't a result of inadequate laws, they were a result of human failures, egos, and bureaucratic turf leading to missed opportunities to identify and disrupt those actions before they were completed.

There are some aspects of PATRIOT which make sense, for example, having phone tap warrants follow a suspect, not a phone number. Those provisions are a minority, not a majority of the substance of the PATRIOT Act.

	09-09-2004 22:23									#111
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quote: Oklahoma City and 9/11 weren't a result of inadequate laws, they were a result of human failures, egos, and bureaucratic turf leading to missed opportunities to identify and disrupt those actions before they were completed.

And the psychos responsible...don't forget them...

	09-09-2004 22:23									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Some people still view terrorism as a criminal activity, true. Many people don't, however, and that's why Cheney brought it up. I'm not comfortable with having a Commander in Chief who would treat terrorism as a mere crime even after September 11th. I think the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Much better to have a "war" against undefined individuals, so that you can have a never-ending state of war, and get people to suck up the reasons for your corruption and mismanagement under that guise. We won't have a thousand-year reich, but we will have a thousand-year war.

	09-09-2004 22:25									#113
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous And the psychos responsible...don't forget them...

There are always psychos. The point is for non-psychos to identify the psychos and get them before they blow something up, not after.

	09-09-2004 22:29									#114
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Terrorism is a crime. How then could it not be treated as one?

	10-09-2004 00:06									#115
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Cheney is evil!

	10-09-2004 00:26									#116
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We never declared war on Iraq. Funds were authorized to use force, that's all.

Has this issue ever been litigated and decided in court? I recall, it was a major issue to many during Vietnam even though Congress passed the Tonkin Gulf resolution that used similar wording to two Gulf War resolutions. It seems to me that courts would decide that Congress can properly delegate to the president the decision of when to declare war thereby making Vietnam and the two Gulf Wars properly declared wars.

	10-09-2004 00:29									#117
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Much better to have a "war" against undefined individuals, so that you can have a never-ending state of war, and get people to suck up the reasons for your corruption and mismanagement under that guise. We won't have a thousand-year reich, but we will have a thousand-year war.

Well, then MtG, what do you think Bush will do next then? Amend the Constitution so that he (or a member of the Bush familiy) can stay in power for 1000 years?

You really have a screw loose.

	10-09-2004 00:29									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph In Napa, I would get a pat on the back.

Until you found out that they were Mexican gardeners and one was the cousin of a deputy sheriff.

	10-09-2004 00:29									#119
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How could a court "decide" that, when it violates the simple premise that it is congress that must vote to declare war? I doubt the congress can vote away its own constitutional responsibilities without, say, changing the constitution.

	10-09-2004 00:33									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, then MtG, what do you think Bush will do next then? Amend the Constitution so that he (or a member of the Bush familiy) can stay in power for 1000 years? You really have a screw loose.

Actually, I think the loose screw is on your reading glasses. Bush is happy to hide behind perpetual war to justify any program Bush wants to run through a Congress full of bobble-heads, and any inconveniences like a slow economy, job losses, deficits, national debt, casualties in the never-ending war, etc. will all be shuffled under the rug because "there's a war on and we all have to make sacrifices."

So tell me, oh wise one, when do you define the end of a "war on terrorism" that is directed against any individual to be defined at convenience? (a la "a suspected member of a group with ties to Al Qaeda")