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Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 16:11
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$2.3 Trillion in New Debt Expected by 2014 Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
$2.3 Trillion in New Debt Expected by 2014
Economic Growth Will Not Ease Strain on U.S., Budget Office Director Warns

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 8, 2004; Page A02

This year's federal budget deficit will reach a record $422 billion, and the government is now expected to accumulate $2.3 trillion in new debt over the next 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office reported yesterday.

The expected deficit for the current fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30, is $56 billion less than the CBO predicted in March, as a recovering economy added to tax receipts. But it is $46 billion more than last year's record shortfall, with even more red ink possible, the nonpartisan agency reported: The expected total 10-year deficit would climb from $2.3 trillion to $3.6 trillion if President Bush is able to extend the tax cuts he enacted. They are currently set to expire in 2011.

"This is a fiscal situation in which we cannot rely on economic growth to cause deficits to disappear," warned CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former economist for the Bush White House. "The budgetary outlook will be dictated by policy choices."

About half of the projected 10-year deficit is based on an assumption that conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan will continue. The CBO policy requires that deficit projections be based on current conditions.

The budget office expects that the total federal debt held by the public -- the amount borrowed through the sale of Treasury bonds to finance overspending -- will balloon 58 percent over the next decade, from $4.3 trillion this year to nearly $6.8 trillion in 2014.

The CBO's findings may refocus some political attention on the fiscal health of a federal government that, between recession, war and tax cuts, has swung from record surpluses to record deficits since Bush took office.

Both political parties seized on the CBO's findings, with Republicans stressing the $56 billion improvement over the CBO's March estimate, and Democrats focusing on the longer-term forecast.

The new estimate is "a sign of the economic growth that is a result of President Bush's leadership on tax relief," said Tim Adams, policy director for the Bush campaign.

Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry retorted, "Only George W. Bush could celebrate over a record budget deficit of $422 billion."

Budget analysts said the report should not be seen as good news to either side inasmuch as neither has a detailed plan to tackle the deficit.

"It's another one of those unwelcome reminders to the candidates that they've got some serious problems that they don't want to face," said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a budget watchdog group.

Bush has pledged to halve the deficit over the next five years. But absent sharp policy shifts, the CBO does not expect the president to meet that goal. The CBO estimated the annual deficit for 2009 to be $312 billion, short of the president's target. Compared with the size of the economy, the deficit in five years would fall to 2.1 percent of gross domestic product from its current 3.6 percent, a substantial improvement but not half of the 2004 level.

Chad Kolton, a spokesman for the White House Office of Management and Budget, said the CBO figures are deceptive because they include far too much money for continued fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The CBO assumed both conflicts will continue for the next 10 years, at a cost of $1.1 trillion.

"The bottom line is, the president is committed to cutting the deficit in half in five years," he said.

The CBO report drew the policy choices facing the nation in sharp relief. The $2.3 trillion in projected deficits over the next decade assumes that all of Bush's 2001 tax cuts expire as scheduled in 2011 and rates rise to the levels that existed before. If the president and congressional Republicans are successful in extending the tax cuts, deficits would surge to $3.6 trillion through 2014, the CBO report said. In 2014 alone, a relatively modest annual deficit of $65 billion would leap to $440 billion if all the tax cuts are kept.

The alternative minimum tax, which was created to ensure the wealthy pay income taxes but which will increasingly ensnare the middle class, presents another fiscal strain. Reforming the law to exclude more middle-class taxpayers -- which both parties say is a priority -- would cost the government at least an additional $425 billion over the next 10 years, and possibly as much as $602 billion, the CBO said.

By then, the cost of the retiring baby-boom generation will have hit the government hard. Social Security and Medicare, currently $789 billion, or 34 percent of federal spending, will swell to $1.5 trillion, or 42 percent of the budget.

Neither Bush nor Kerry has detailed how he would tackle the deficit. Both candidates have made campaign pledges that probably would worsen the government's fiscal position, although the candidates have been careful to avoid a detailed accounting.

In Bush's acceptance speech in Madison Square Garden on Thursday night, he reiterated a call to allow younger workers to invest some of their Social Security payroll taxes in stocks and bonds through personal investment accounts. Because virtually all Social Security taxes are used to pay the benefits of current retirees, any diversion of those taxes would have to be made up through more government borrowing. Even a small diversion of, say, 2 percent of payroll taxes, could cost the government as much as $2 trillion in the first 10 years, according to the Social Security Administration's actuary.

Bush has also called for new Lifetime Savings Accounts, which would effectively end the taxation of capital gains, dividends and interest for all but the richest Americans. Individuals could shield from taxation the investment gains of as much as $7,500 of savings a year, and those savings could be withdrawn at any time for any reason. The cost of the proposal would be minimal in the first decade but could swell to $50 billion a year in later decades, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Kerry has pledged to roll back some of the tax cuts passed in 2001 and 2003, including income tax, capital gains and dividend cuts that have benefited households with incomes of more than $200,000. But the savings from those tax increases would be consumed by a $653 billion expansion of health care coverage, a $200 billion education program and other promises.

"Neither one of them is focused on deficit reduction, and neither one of them is focused on hard choices," Bixby said. "And the message of today's report is that tough choices are needed."

Staff writer Mike Allen contributed to this report.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company


****

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 16:12
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Remember, you were supposed to have no debt at all by 2010.

4 MORE YEARS!

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 16:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Remember, you were supposed to have no debt at all by 2010.



Yeah, thanks, but I try not to think about it...

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 21:23 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Kerry's planning on rolling back tax cuts? Well, ****, I'm voting for Bush.

(never mind the fact that I never saw those tax cuts, but that's somehow supposed to make me like Bush?)

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 21:32
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Can a state file for bankruptcy today? I know that the Danish state filed for bankruptcy sometime in the late 19th century.

What would be the effect if the state went to court and declared itself bankrupt?

How large is the US gold reserve?

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Jan 1970
time: 23:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 21:56 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I find it interesting that projections they made back in March were way off... but then they make "doom and gloom" predictions for what it "might" be 10 years from now.

The economy will be the key factor in what these numbers are... and as they proved before, they couldn't even predict the economy in the short term... let alone 10 years from now... so as far as any predictions they make....

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:05
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Who takes projections that far in advance seriously? Next you'll be talking about a SS trustfund.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:11 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Projections. Projections. I predict I will be a billionarie in two years. I will own a thousand cars.

Projections are not always right and the chances of them being wrong for the longer term is a lot greater. I don't take these with a grain of salt.

BustaMike is offline BustaMike
King
You think you're better than me? You've been handling my ass pennies!!!
Nov 1999
time: 21:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:15 Visit BustaMike's homepage!
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Fez, you're screwing up your cliches buddy. I think you mean you do take them with a grain of salt .

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:15 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Take them with a grain of salt means that you don't pay attention to them, iirc...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:16 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by BustaMike
Fez, you're screwing up your cliches buddy. I think you mean you do take them with a grain of salt . [/QUOTE

I was referring to the projections but since you can't read too well I won't go after you.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:17 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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No, what he's saying, Fezzie, is that if you take something with a grain of salt, it means that you think that something is complete bollocks.

BustaMike is offline BustaMike
King
You think you're better than me? You've been handling my ass pennies!!!
Nov 1999
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:18 Visit BustaMike's homepage!
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No... I read it correctly. Saying you take things WITH a grain of salt means you are skeptical, not the other way around as you said it. Don't get mad. I'm helping .

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:18 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by BustaMike
No... I read it correctly. Saying you take things WITH a grain of salt means you are skeptical, not the other way around as you said it. Don't get mad. I'm helping .


Actually there was nothing wrong with the way I said it. I can't believe you. READ MY DAMN POSTS FOR A CHANGE. I don't need your stupid help for nothing.

BustaMike is offline BustaMike
King
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Nov 1999
time: 21:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:19 Visit BustaMike's homepage!
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So you think the predictions are dead on?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
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Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:20 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by BustaMike
So you think the predictions are dead on?


No I do not. I think they are dead wrong.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:21
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and that's why he won't take them, not even with a grain of salt..

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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quote:
Projections are not always right and the chances of them being wrong for the longer term is a lot greater.

no disagreement there.

quote:
I don't take these with a grain of salt.

here you're using a figure of speech somewhat incorrectly. if you don't take these with a grain of salt, it means you place value in the projections.

the idiom is that the projections, or the item, is so meaningless, so worthless, that the only way anybody would take them is with a grain of salt--something that has marginally more value.

which is why people say the phrase:

"Take this with a grain of salt, but I think you're full of crap."

it's a disclaimer that means that the persion thinks you're full of crap, but that his opinion doesn't mean much to you.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:21 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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You guys are acting idiotic....

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:22 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Fez, i submit to you this:

to take something with a grain of salt

BustaMike is offline BustaMike
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Nov 1999
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:22 Visit BustaMike's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
and that's why he won't take them, not even with a grain of salt..


That's not what he said. Besides, don't help. This is fun .

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:24 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
Fez, i submit to you this:

to take something with a grain of salt


DAMN YOU... JUST F---KING DROP IT. I DO NOT TAKE THESE PROJECTIONS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. THAT'S F--KING PROPER TO SAY.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
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Apr 1999
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and this. and this. and this

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:25 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
and this. and this. and this


I think you should consider jumping off a cliff.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:26 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Got spare money?

Fez, did you read the examples the links provided?

Look, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, I'm just trying to, as a native English speaker, help you with an idiom.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:27 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
Fez, did you read the examples the links provided?

Look, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, I'm just trying to, as a native English speaker, help you with an idiom.


Nope. Because the way I used it was totally proper. You are acting foolish in thinking I'm stupid when it comes to english. You can go shove it.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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And this. Hell, even this.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:27
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quote:
DO NOT TAKE THESE PROJECTIONS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT


I do not take that statement with a grain of salt

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
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Apr 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
And this. Hell, even this.


Wrong, wrong. I still used it properly for the meaning I intended.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:29 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Nope. Because the way I used it was totally proper. You are acting foolish in thinking I'm stupid when it comes to english. You can go shove it.

Dude, I think your English is fantastic. The rest of it was perfectly fine, I'm just trying to point out the idiom.

Idioms are tricky to use, especially if you're not a native speaker. The way you used it doesn't make sense. We knew what you wanted to say, so it's cool, it's just that you might want to know how the phrase is used.

 
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