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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:10 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Before long, we're going to have Kerry campaign employees being charged with forging government documents (I would imagine this is a felony). This is just too much damn fun.



Except for one minor detail you keep overlooking. Two of those documents came from the White House itself. If there was forgery involved, either the White was duped also or the White House was behind it.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:12 Visit DanS's homepage!
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If you read the friggin WaPo article, they say the White House passed on the CBS News documents "in the interest of openness" as they refuted them.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:14
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You still have to run the guantlet

quote:
The liberal media got caught with it's pants down.


Sounds like CBS got used by Democrat operatives, but I wouldn't doubt they were a bit more gullible due to political bias.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:20
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quote:
Except for one minor detail you keep overlooking. Two of those documents came from the White House itself. If there was forgery involved, either the White was duped also or the White House was behind it.


That depends on who gave CBS the "original fakes", I didn't get your premise from the article. It doesn't say the White House was the source for the fakes... But if these documents came from the government, then it's possible Rove et al planted them so Deomcrats would see them and alert CBS.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:24 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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The WaPo article says that the WH passed on the documents to other reporters that were original supplied to the WH by CBS. So CBS is the primary source.

Yup, it do indeedy look like they got burned bad.

So, the question is, who did it and why? I can think of three reasons, money, embarressing the Prez, and embarressing the Dems.

Interestingly, this is gonna discredit both the ABC and Boston Globe stories by association. Frankly, this is such an incredible boon for the Prez I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rove was behind it.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:27 Visit DanS's homepage!
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This was probably just a shitbomb that the Bush campaign left for Kerry. But Kerry's campaign took the bait on it and decided to stoop to the gutter, which they will rue dearly (how to prove in a court of law that it was given to them by Bush's campaign and was not a fraud perpetrated on their own... Who's going to believe them on the stand?)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:29 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I don't see anything in the WaPo article putting this on the Dems. Do you know something?

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:30 Visit DanS's homepage!
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That's for the "internal investigation" by CBS.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Guess I'm gonna have to live with the idiot another four years.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:44
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Guess I'm gonna have to live with the idiot another four years.


Take heart, this race isn't over yet for your man. The whole Vietnam stuff was a stupid issue for the Democrats to have brought up, it was stupid for John Kerry to repeat "I SERVED IN VIETNAM AND WON THREE PURPLE HEARTS" ad nauseum, and it was stupid to persue this line of attack as well. With the economy the way it is, people want to hear about the issues affecting them, not some bullshit that happened over 30 years ago(no offense to any vets).

Even had this attack succeded, it would have been of the sort to energize people already behind Kerry. Instead what we have seen is two backfires for campaigning on this, first with Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and now this fraud, and this won't help Kerry.

Kerry had seemed to have moved away from campaigning on Vietnam over to attacking Bush on the economy and campaigning on that. This incident is really going to interfere with this transition. But if Kerry can stay on message, shut up about this Vietnam crap, and realize that "It's the economy stupid", then we'll have a real race.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:48
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quote:
This was probably just a shitbomb that the Bush campaign left for Kerry. But Kerry's campaign took the bait on it and decided to stoop to the gutter, which they will rue dearly (how to prove in a court of law that it was given to them by Bush's campaign and was not a fraud perpetrated on their own... Who's going to believe them on the stand?)


Devious minds think alike

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 09:53
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Maybe CBS was given copies of the original government documents. That would explain why they appear "modern", but are there originals?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 10:01
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap

In response to Ned's question of who was responsible for the forgeries, Democrats or CBS:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Classic, just classic



GePap, he who laughs last, laughs best.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 10:05
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If Rather is "shocked" and publicly apologizes when (not if) this forgery is confirmed, I would be shocked -- but pleasantly surprised -- as well.

This has got to hurt Kerry big time, as it wears on the credibility of all who have been attacking Bush on this NG issue -- including a certain fat, smirking documentarian.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 10:57
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quote:
GePap, he who laughs last, laughs best.


Better to laugh all the time, I get to do that because I don't care which of these people get elected and it's just really funny watching the spat nationally and here at Poly.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 11:00
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Berz, well it looks like the Dems have really shot themselves in the foot this time. As I said, this has got to hurt Kerry.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 11:13
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And I predicted early on Kerry would edge Bush out, now it's looking like a landslide. I tell ya, the GOP Convention just destroyed Kerry.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 11:19
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I was reading on Drudge that Kerry has not answered a reporter's question in more than month.

Ouch!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 11:32
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quote:
Kerry had seemed to have moved away from campaigning on Vietnam over to attacking Bush on the economy and campaigning on that. This incident is really going to interfere with this transition. But if Kerry can stay on message, shut up about this Vietnam crap, and realize that "It's the economy stupid", then we'll have a real race.


The economy isn't bad enough for Kerry to use it as a winning issue. The only way he can take down Bush is to go after Bush on the war in Iraq. Kerry doesn't have the balls (or the necessary past record of opposition) to do that, though, so all he's really going to do now is try to go down with dignity.

This incident severely lowers the chances of that happening, though.

quote:
Better to laugh all the time, I get to do that because I don't care which of these people get elected and it's just really funny watching the spat nationally and here at Poly.


Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 11:57
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You may have got your wish, Dan!

quote:
Anatomy of a Forgery
By The Prowler
Published 9/10/2004 12:09:06 AM


More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."


The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.


http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096

If true, this thing just keeps getting better and better...

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 12:05
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If it's Rove's idea then I'd be more inclined to vote for Kerry. Who would want such a man to have the president's ear?

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 12:20
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...and if the Kerry campaign is the source? Would you want such people to have the Presiden't ear?

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 14:48
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If Rove pulled this off I'd pull him from the campaign and have him take over in Iraq.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 15:46
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Interestingly, this is gonna discredit both the ABC and Boston Globe stories by association. Frankly, this is such an incredible boon for the Prez I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rove was behind it.



I knew it! I knew it! I knew the vast right wing conspiracy folk were going to try and spin this.

By the by, I am vindicated!!

Bloggosphere now 4

'Old" Media - 0


[taunt mode]
Ohhh GePap, where are you?
[/taunt mode]

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 15:54
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It wouldn't surprise me if Rove or some other Republican was behind it, it's the sort of thing he'd do.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 15:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
If Rather is "shocked" and publicly apologizes when (not if) this forgery is confirmed, I would be shocked -- but pleasantly surprised -- as well.



It would be ohhh so pleasant if the smug SOB had to resign.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 16:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker


Better to laugh all the time, I get to do that because I don't care which of these people get elected and it's just really funny watching the spat nationally and here at Poly.


Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 16:40
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This is what happens when people hate someone so much , they are willing to do just about anything to get them out including look over the truth. There will be no victory if either of these guys win.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 17:53
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I was watching the news this morning. Apparently the daughter of the Democrat pol, who has recently said that he "regrets" having "helped" Bush get into the NG at the request of Bush I, now says her Dad is lying. She has come out and said that her Dad told her the exact opposite in 2000, but has recently changed his story because he is writing a "book."

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 17:56
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Got spare money?

Isn't it pathetic how easily the Democrats are caught in lies trying to smear an honest man, nay, an honest family?

Democrats, don't you have any class whatsoever?

 
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