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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:23
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BTW, I've been reading a lot of anti-Nostradamus pages as well. It seems as if he's bound for Hell:
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/nostradamus.htm
quote:
But Nostradamus was correct about one thing--he himself was hell-bound, as is anyone involved in the occult. Besides Dt. 18:10-12 other Scriptures apply:
All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by. (Isa 47:13,14)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. (Rev 21:8)
Dear reader, if you or someone you know is involved in the occult, repent from this evil and turn to Jesus Christ. Prove your repentance by your deeds, including the destroying of your sorcery materials (Acts 19:19).
Also, if the reader wants to read the future before it happens, he/she should go to the Bible (God’s word), the only reliable source from God that mankind has, and carefully ponder its pages as to the coming of the antichrist, the Lord’s return, Judgment Day and other events. There they will find 100% accurate information about anything the Scriptures speak out upon, unlike the prophecies of Nostradamus! Of utmost importance, the reader should examine what the Bible declares about how to find forgiveness of sins and salvation. For more information on this please view our other related articles. GOD BLESS YOU. |
So one person is going to hell because he tries to tell mankind what will happen in the future, so that perhaps mankind can better itself. That's the faith I want to follow 
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
Why's that? You discredit him simply because you don't leave yourself open to acceptance, as you don't to religion. His predictions aren't good enough for YOU, specifically. Don't assume that since he doesn't work for you he shouldn't work for anyone.
Granted, I'll take what I see in front of my eyes over what the quatrains say, but I take the quatrains for what they are: an attempt by a simple man to indicate where humanity may be headed. Perhaps its a clairvoyant notion, perhaps its a misguided attempt to control the future, but at any rate, his predictions don't NEGATIVELY effect what happens. |
It's not whether he works for me, it is whether his predictions are accurate. If they are accurate, then they are worth investigating. If they are not, then they are mere historical curiosities, like that horse that could count or the Marquis De Sade.
To make his predictions accurate, one has to make allowances, major allowances for dates, places, translations, etc. The passage you quoted was typical - in essence the author said "Well, if you rework the formula like this, and change the numbers just so, then it will all work out."
That's crap. That's not even good BS. I might not have a nose for religion, but I sure can smell out when somebody is going through major contortions to make their point.
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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:23
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The problem with Nostradamus is, the further you get from France and from the Renaissance, the more his quatrains need interpretation. However, those that regard France and are within a few hundred years are far more believable, because they are things Nostradamus can understand. How can someone back then understand airplanes, atomic weapons, or skyscrapers?
A lot of people who question Nostradamus don't look and the prophecies that occur around Europe and near to his time, but rather those which he couldn't understand in a Medieval setting, and thus are more open to interpretation. I have included some that are more specific than the ones most who discredit Nostradamus are accustomed to, along with explanation.
Viable, believable Nostradamus Quatrains:
quote:
C1, Q3: The French Revolution
When the litters are overturned by the whirlwind and faces are covered by cloaks, the new republic will be troubled by its people. At this time the reds and the whites will rule wrongly. |
The aristocracy of France was carried in litters. A litter overturned is symbolic of the overturning of the controlling aristocracy by the "whirlwind" aka Revolution. Red is the color of the Revolution and White the color of the Bourbon kings. Anyone who knows something about the French revolution knows that the people in control thoroughly handled their new power with bloodthirsty contempt, ie "wrongly", because it didn't lead to a great enlightenment in France.
quote:
C1, Q47: The League of Nations
The speeches of Lake Leman will become angered, the days will drag out into weeks, then months, then years, then all will fail. The authorities will condemn their useless powers. |
I believe that everyone knows the failure that was the League of Nations, with useless speeches that led to nothing. During the time of Nostradamus, Lake Geneva was known in France as Lake Leman, which is where the first LoN assembly was held in 1920.
quote:
C1, Q 72: French Casualties during WWII
The inhabitants of Marseilles completely changed, fleeing and pursued as far as Lyons. Narbonne, Toulouse angered by Bordeaux ; the killed and captive number almost one million. |
The Vichy puppet government of WWII included Narbonne, Toulousek, and Lyons, while the exile French government fled to Bordeaux. Meanwhile, the Germans occupied Marseille, certainly a "habitants changees". The official French casualty lists 675,000 killed or wounded Frenchmen, with an unknown amount of captives/prisoners of war.
quote:
C1, Q98: Napoleon's Expidition to Egypt
The leader will conduct great numbers of people far from their skies, to foreign customs and language. Five thousand will die in Crete and Thessaly, the leader fleeing in a sea-going supply ship. |
Napoleon brought many people from France to foreign shores. When he left Egypt 1789, he left the Turks a force of 5,000. At the time, the Turks controled both Thessaly and Crete. Napoleon did flee in a wooden ship that wouldn't be picked up by the British patrolling Mediteranean waters.
quote:
C2, Q1: The Dardanelles, WWI
Towards Aquitaine, by British assaults, and by them also great incursions. Rains and frost make the terrain unsafe, against Port Selin they will make might invasions. |
The Allies opened up a front against Turkey (where Port Selin is located) while France (Aquatiane) and Britain were deadlocked with Germany on the Western front. In order to reach Constantinople (the city where Port Selin is located), they had to attack the DArdanelles. During the time that they planned and eventually enacted this attack, the forces met with incredibly dreadful weather.
quote:
C2, Q51: The Great Fire of London 1666{/quote]
The blood of the just will be demanded of London burnt by fire in three times twenty plus six. The ancient lady will fall from her high position, and many of the same denomination will be killed. |
3 X 20 + 6 = 66. The Great London fired occured in 1666 (London burnt by fire). Many Cathoic churches in London were destroyed along with many parisioners, including the Catheral of St. Pauls, one of the oldest churches in London.
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C2 Q67: James II and William of Orange, 1688/9
The blond one will come into conflict with the hooknosed one, in a duel and will drive him out. He will have restored the exiles commiting the strongest to the marine places. |
Even in the Renaissance era, the "blond one" was understood to be William of Orange. From Erika Cheetham:
"William's party drives out James II in 1688, but the Stuart party (les exilez) decided to reinstate him and put all their efforts into a sea battle. James based himself in Ireland and was aided by the French fleet. In 1690 the Allies were badly beaten at sea off Beachy Head but on the same day William III won the Battle of the Boyne and James was forced to flee to France, from which he never returned. The British fleet did not finally subdue the French and assure her maritime supremacy for anotehr two years at Cap la Hague in 1692".
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C2, Q99: Failure of Napoleon's Russian Campaign
Roman land that the augur interprets, will be greatly molested by the French nation. But the French will come to dread the time of the North wind having driven their fleet too far. |
Rome (the Vatican states in those days) was a part of the French empire by 1810, as most of Europe was, which had centuries ago been Roman territory, and the French certainly "molested" Italy. The French army was then defeated in Russia, partially by cold windes (Boreas) and the overcommitment of troops by Napoleon. The North very much at the time was the people of Russia.
These are just a few quatrains from 2 out of 10 Centuries, dozens of which are much more feasable than the ones people without much knowledge of Nostradamus focus on.
Also, often in his messages, Nostradamus includes a few symbols: The Lion, the ****, the Eagle, the Bear, and the Sun. The Lion and **** were symbols of England and France even at his time, but what of the rest? The Eagle is most often associated with quatrains that are thought to be about the US, which wouldn't exist until over 200 years after his death. The Bear is often opposite the Eagle, and was a symbol of the USSR about 400 years after his death. The Sun is most often used in quatrains regarding WWII, which is probably Japan's (Land of the Rising Sun) most active international war. Maybe these mean nothing; I like to think that he doesn't just use random symbolism, however, because he doesn't indicate a Monkey or a Tiger or a Kangaroo anywhere.
But what do I know? I'm just an open-minded idiot.
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Max Webster
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"But what do I know? I'm just an open-minded idiot"
Idiot or not, you sure come up with an impressive post
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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:23
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Alright, fine, you called me on it. Let's look at the third quatrain I put up:
quote:
De tout Marseille des hapitants changee, Course & poursuitte jusqu'au pres de Lyon, Nalbon Tholoze par Bordeaux outragee, Tuez captifs presque d'un million. |
I don't speak French, but from a translation site I find this:
Out of any Marseilles of the hapitants changee, Race & poursuitte jusqu'au close to Lyon, Nalbon Tholoze by Bordeaux outragee, Kill captive almost d'un million.
Now, that seems close to the English translation. Nalbon is the apocope (ie Medieval abreviation) of Narbonne. The site I went to doesn't really translate "poursuitte", but a friend of mine that does speak French told me that it does in fact mean "pursue". The translation is close enough that it doesn't seem to require someone to look at "this word could have meant X, but also Y".
Should I translate all of them?
Do I really have to translate EVERY quatrain I gave?
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12-09-2004 10:17
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