17-09-2004 18:26									#271
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Damn gone for a couple days and I miss all the fun.

Hi GePap.

	17-09-2004 18:41									#272
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quote: Not Defending The Brand Didn't anyone at Viacom or CBS go to HBS? In October of 1982, someone began to put poison into Tylenol bottles, and seven deaths resulted. Johnson & Johnson, the owner of the brand, responded immediately and aggressively to the consumer reaction, and the response has become a model for corporate crisis managers, and a famous "case study" at Harvard Business School. Commentary on the episode has always focused on the company's decision to put the public interest first. One historian of the crises wrote: "The public relations decisions made as a result of the Tylenol crisis, arrived in two phases. The first phase was the actual handling of the crisis. The comeback of both Johnson & Johnson and Tylenol, was the second phase in the public relations plan. The planning for phase two began almost as soon as phase one was being implemented." "Phase one of Johnson & Johnson's public relations campaign was executed immediately following the discovery that the deaths in Chicago were caused by Extra- Strength Tylenol capsules. As the plan was constructed, Johnson & Johnson's top management put customer safety first, before they worried about their companies profit and other financial concerns." "The company immediately alerted consumers across the nation, via the media, not to consume any type of Tylenol product. They told consumers not to resume using the product until the extent of the tampering could be determined. Johnson & Johnson, along with stopping the production and advertising of Tylenol, recalled all Tylenol capsules from the market. The recall included approximately 31 million bottles of Tylenol, with a retail value of more than 100 million dollars. (Broom, Center, Cutlip, 381)" "This was unusual for a large corporation facing a crisis. In many other similar cases, companies had put themselves first, and ended up doing more damage to their reputations than if they had immediately taken responsibility for the crisis." The contrast with CBS corporate behavior this past week could not be more stark. Dan Rather is a spent asset, with perhaps a negative value even before this collapse, and the producers that fed Rather this stew of forgery, flawed back-up, unpersuasive experts, cover-up and sham can easily be replaced from the nearly limitless supply of hungry would-be producers. In other words, there is no downside to walking away from the story, but enormous damage is done by refusing to come clean and admit what every objective observer --even the Los Angeles Times, for goodness sakes, has figured out: "CBS News was had." For reasons unfathomable to outsiders, the Board of Directors of Viacom is watching the brand value burn to the ground without lifting a finger to stop it. This isn't about a one week ratings fade. It is about setting free an entire generation of news viewers to sample other networks and develop new habits. The events of the past week may be taught in business schools for decades to come as the companion to the Tylenol case study: How to destroy a brand it took nearly 90 years to establish. The roped and doped network, all because there isn't one person above Rather with the guts to speak the truth?

	17-09-2004 19:43									#273
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Rather should resign. Plain and Simple. He's too old anyways.

	17-09-2004 19:47									#274
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quote: Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 Just a point of interest here.... Arnold can never be President of the US. He was not born a US citizen. He was naturalized. You must be a born US citizen in order to hold the highest office in the US.

there are movements to change this as we speak.

	18-09-2004 00:20									#275
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Recall that I reported an affiliate executive who said that, if these documents turned out to be fake, he would call for Dan Rather's resignation. I think the verdict is in on that issue, so don't be surprised if the people who depend upon CBS News for a living are calling for Dan's head.

	18-09-2004 00:26									#276
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident there are movements to change this as we speak.

Bowel movements in bovines?

	18-09-2004 00:27									#277
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BTW, on several talk shows recently Dan's past exploits in this fraud game have been discussed. Apparently in the early 80's, Dan ran a special on Westmorland. Westmorland sued for libel. He won and collected a lot - so much so that it really hurt CBS.

In 1988, Dan had 8 "Vietnam Vets" describe the attrocities they committed in Vietnam. But, like Jane Fonda's Winter Soldier Investigation once before, none of these "Vets" had ever seen combat in Vietnam. The story was as false as false could be. AFAIK, Dan Rather has never been held to account for either fraud.

He seems to be skating on thin ice now -- because he has become a laughingstock to the people of America. But, he has twice survived fraudulent reports before. Maybe he will survive this time as well.

	18-09-2004 02:54									#278
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This is so "tempest in a teapot" that I seriously doubt Dan Rather would be asked to quit, anymore than the editors of the NY Post wre asked to quit for saying Gebhardt was the VP candidate, or the RS's won the series.

	18-09-2004 03:09									#279
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quote: Originally posted by GePap This is so "tempest in a teapot" that I seriously doubt Dan Rather would be asked to quit, anymore than the editors of the NY Post wre asked to quit for saying Gebhardt was the VP candidate, or the RS's won the series.

The editors at the New York Times however weren't as lucky when facing a similar situation over Jayson Blair's "work."

	18-09-2004 03:28									#280
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The editors at the New York Times however weren't as lucky when facing a similar situation over Jayson Blair's "work."

That was a far greater problem, dealing with many stories over many months.

	18-09-2004 03:37									#281
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quote: Originally posted by GePap That was a far greater problem, dealing with many stories over many months.

How many fraudulant cases does it take for it to be major

	18-09-2004 04:01									#282
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quote: Originally posted by GePap This is so "tempest in a teapot" that I seriously doubt Dan Rather would be asked to quit, anymore than the editors of the NY Post wre asked to quit for saying Gebhardt was the VP candidate, or the RS's won the series.

Ratings will determine that fate.

	18-09-2004 07:04									#283
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber How many fraudulant cases does it take for it to be major

Jason Blair made things up- no one has blamed Dan Rather for making those papers up, only broadcasting them- in the realm of journalistic ethics, passing of a false story to me is far less than being part of a felony (Hello Mr. Novak), and yet no one else seems to care. Dan Rather has been stupid by not saying "we might be wrong"- but that is all he has to do, apologize. To call for his resignation is absurd.

	18-09-2004 07:20									#284
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But do consider that each of his three famous wrong stories, and each of his other fauz pas, were attacking the the same part of the poltical spectrum, a pattern leading to a strong appearence of bias entering his work. He has made no notatle foul up or lapses in demeanor when dealing with the left.

	18-09-2004 08:08									#285
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On one of the talk show programs tonight, one of the guests said that the person who forged the documents may be guilty of some crime (I can only speculate as to what crime), and that Rather may be caught up in this as a co-conspirator precisely because he has not said the either he or CBS were mislead in any way.

Indeed, it high time to turn this sordid affair over to the professionals in the Justice Department.

CBS may be facing a huge criminal penalty and Rather may be facing time behind bars with his lusty admirers.

	18-09-2004 08:33									#286
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I think I would honestly throw a party if Rather was thrown behind bars. Hopefully the others will follow suit. Long live FOX news.

	21-09-2004 08:46									#287
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The story keeps getting better. Links and collusion with the Kerry campaign? There is certainly enough smoke to entail an investigation.


AP Wire

quote: Sep 20, 10:02 PM EDT Kerry Aide Talked to Retired Guard Officer NEW YORK (AP) -- At the behest of CBS, an adviser to John Kerry said Monday he talked to a central figure in the controversy over President Bush's National Guard service shortly before disputed documents were released. The White House accused Kerry's campaign of fanning the controversy over Bush's military service. Joe Lockhart denied any connection between the presidential campaign and the papers. Lockhart, the second Kerry ally to confirm contact with retired Texas National Guard officer Bill Burkett, said he made the call at the suggestion of CBS producer Mary Mapes. "He had some advice on how to deal with the Vietnam issue and the Swift boat" allegations, Lockhart said, referring to GOP-fueled accusations that Kerry exaggerated his Vietnam War record. "He said these guys play tough and we have to put the Vietnam experience into context and have Kerry talk about it more." The White House called the exchange evidence of coordination between the Kerry campaign and Burkett. "The fact that CBS News and a high-level adviser to the Kerry campaign coordinated a personal attack on President Bush is a stunning and deeply troubling development," said White House communications director Dan Bartlett. He urged Kerry to hold accountable anybody involved in helping CBS obtain the documents. Lockhart denied any involvement. "Bartlett is wrong," he said later Monday. Earlier, Lockhart said he thanked Burkett for his advice after a three- to four-minute call, and that he does not recall talking to Burkett about Bush's Guard records. "It's baseless to say the Kerry campaign had anything to do with this," he said. Later, Lockhart said he was sure he had not talked to Burkett about the Guard documents. CBS News apologized Monday for a "mistake in judgment" in its story questioning Bush's Guard service, claiming it was misled by the source of documents that several experts have dismissed as fakes. The network said an independent panel would look at its reporting about the memos. CBS News spokeswoman Kelli Edwards said Mapes had declined to comment. "This is an example of the kind of thing that the independent panel that will be named in a few days will look into. When that review is complete, we will comment," Edwards said. Burkett admitted this weekend to CBS that he lied about obtaining the documents from another former National Guard member, the network said. CBS hasn't been able to conclusively tell how he got them, or even whether they're fakes. Kerry ally Max Cleland, a former Georgia senator, also said he had a brief conversation last month with Burkett, who told him he had information about Bush to counter charges against Kerry's Vietnam War service. Cleland said he gave Burkett's name and phone number to the campaign's research department. Kerry spokesman David Ginsberg said nobody in the campaign's research department followed up on Burkett's offer of information. Lockhart said Mapes asked him the weekend before the story broke to call Burkett. "She basically said there's a guy who is being helpful on the story who wants to talk to you," Lockhart said, adding that it was common knowledge that CBS was working on a story raising questions about Bush's Guard service. Mapes told him there were some records "that might move the story forward. She didn't tell me what they said." © 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

	21-09-2004 10:13									#288
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It's very likely Burkett contacted the Kerry campaign. Collusion, however, is rather unlikely. The Kerry people would be smart enough to know that this would be toxic without proof.

	21-09-2004 11:48									#289
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Che, what is disturbing is that CBS contacted the Kerry campaign to urge them to talk to Burkett.

	21-09-2004 11:51									#290
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I think you're right.

	21-09-2004 12:11									#291
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I think there is collusion and I think this could mean some kind of legal action taken against whoever was involved (I do believe somebody in the Kerry campaign will get in trouble with the justice).

	21-09-2004 12:15									#292
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Jason Blair made things up- no one has blamed Dan Rather for making those papers up, only broadcasting them- in the realm of journalistic ethics, passing of a false story to me is far less than being part of a felony (Hello Mr. Novak), and yet no one else seems to care. Dan Rather has been stupid by not saying "we might be wrong"- but that is all he has to do, apologize. To call for his resignation is absurd.

You never know when to quit. Using false documents is fraud, publishing false documents is fraud. It is a felony. Now stop being in constant denial that all he has to do is apologize but may get in trouble with the law. You just do whatever it takes to defend illegal activity of the left wing in this country.

	21-09-2004 12:20									#293
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Giancarlo, I'm not sure it is illegal for CBS to contact a political campaign like this, but it sure does raise a lot of questions concerning CBS. Dan Rather hinted that there could be some firings over this. Mapes, from all appearances, is a prime candidate to fall on her sword.

I think Burkett also got himself off a criminal charge because he said to CBS that they had to authenticate the documents, which they failed to do before going with the story. Rather admits that that was the fundamental error by CBS.

	21-09-2004 12:35									#294
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quote: The Kerry people would be smart enough to know that this would be toxic without proof.

What exactly have the Kerry people done in the past couple months to convince you that they're smart?

	21-09-2004 13:35									#295
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Giancarlo, I'm not sure it is illegal for CBS to contact a political campaign like this, but it sure does raise a lot of questions concerning CBS. Dan Rather hinted that there could be some firings over this. Mapes, from all appearances, is a prime candidate to fall on her sword. I think Burkett also got himself off a criminal charge because he said to CBS that they had to authenticate the documents, which they failed to do before going with the story. Rather admits that that was the fundamental error by CBS.

Isn't it helping to promote fraudulant documents? That's at least punishable in civil court. Dan Rather hinted there could be some firings over this? There he goes again. Maybe he should quiet down because it could be himself.

However, your second point is noted but if somebody did in fact sign a faulty signature to the documents the person who committed that act did commit a crime, no matter about who said what to whom.

	21-09-2004 16:06									#296
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, what is disturbing is that CBS contacted the Kerry campaign to urge them to talk to Burkett.

Yet more proof positive regarding my assertion of the intentional bias of mainstream media.

	21-09-2004 17:48									#297
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I told you Rather was going to throw Mapes under a bus.

	22-09-2004 01:49									#298
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CBS considered most biased of networks even moreso than FOX.

Rasmussen reports on networks

quote: Voters See All Networks with Bias Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters September 18, 2004 Is Presidential campaign coverage unbiased, biased to help Kerry, or biased to help Bush? No Bias Help Kerry Help Bush CBS 33% 37% 10% ABC 36% 30% 10% NBC 39% 28% 11% CNN 39% 25% 12% Fox 38% 7% 34% RasmussenReports.com September 19, 2004--Television news networks would like to see themselves as a team of impartial journalists working on behalf of their audience. However, a Rasmussen Reports survey found that voters see an entirely different picture. Generally speaking, they believe ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, CNN, and the Fox News Channel are biased to help one campaign or the other. Between 33% and 39% of Americans believe that each of the five major broadcast news outlets is unbiased. On balance, four of the five are believed to be helping the Kerry campaign. One, Fox News, is believed to be helping the Bush campaign. CBS is seen as the most biased--37% believe that network news team is trying to help the Kerry campaign. Only 33% believe it presents the news in an unbiased manner. This may be a reaction to the recent flap over memos aired by CBS--38% believe that Dan Rather used his broadcasts to help the Kerry campaign. Bias is clearly in the eye of the beholder and there is a very strong partisan tint to all the data. Fifty-four percent (54%) of all Kerry voters believe that Fox News is trying to help elect Bush. At least 50% of Kerry voters believe that each of the other four news sources are unbiased. At the other end of the spectrum, 60% of Bush voters believe Fox News is unbiased. Seventy percent (70%) of Bush voters believe that CBS is trying to help Kerry. Between 48% and 55% believe the same is true about CNN, ABC, and NBC. Twenty-one percent (21%) of Kerry voters believe CNN is biased to help Bush. That may shock conservatives who used to routinely dismiss CNN as the "Clinton News Network." At the same time, those who dismiss Fox as propaganda may be shocked that the other networks are viewed by voters in essentially the same light. Similar perceptions of bias were found for major newspapers. Additionally, a survey conducted last year found that only 46% of Americans viewed the New York Times as a reliable source of information.

	22-09-2004 01:53									#299
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Print Media poll find NYTimes most biased.

Rasmussen poll on Newspapers

quote: Voters See Newspaper Bias Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters September 19, 2004 Is Presidential campaign coverage unbiased, biased to help Kerry, or biased to help Bush? No Bias Help Kerry Help Bush NY Times 22% 35% 7% Wall Street Journal 29% 13% 17% USA Today 24% 24% 9% Wash Post 20% 24% 10% Local Paper 40% 27% 17% RasmussenReports.com September 20, 2004--Forty percent (40%) of voters see the campaign coverage of their local newspapers as unbiased. However, only 20% to 29% view national papers as unbiased. Among five different papers, the New York Times is seen as the most biased--35% believe its coverage is biased to help Kerry while only 22% believe it is unbiased. This may be a lingering response to the Jayson Blair scandals from last year. At that time, only 46% of Americans viewed the New York Times as a reliable source of information. The Wall Street Journal is seen as the most balanced. Twenty-nine percent believe it is unbiased, 17% say it is biased to help Bush, and 13% believe it is biased to help Kerry. In addition to being seen as the most balanced, it is the only newspaper not seen as trying to help Kerry. A similar pattern was found among major broadcast outlets--four out of five were seen as favoring Kerry. Twenty-four percent (24%) of voters believe that USA Today is biased to help Kerry. Only 9% believe it leans towards Bush. The numbers are virtually identical for the Washington Post (24% biased to help Kerry, 10% biased towards Bush). For local newspapers, the numbers are 27% favor Kerry and 17% favor Bush. Partisan perceptions clearly play a role in this media evaluation. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of all Bush voters believe that the New York Times is biased to help Kerry. Among Kerry voters, 32% believe that the paper is unbiased. Not only that, 13% of Kerry voters believe the NY Times is biased to help their man while 12% believe it is biased towards Bush. While some may be discouraged by the lack of credibility earned by newspapers and other media outlets, it is probably healthy for voters to be skeptical consumers of information.

	22-09-2004 02:31									#300
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I know, reporting the facts of the current world and local situation is so damned biased!

When will the press learn to stop reporting facts that show the president's admin. has been a failure!? Don't they see their role is not to report, but to make sure everyone thinks they aren't biased? (a perception, of course, based on personal biases interestingly enough)