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The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 05:58
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Putin to combat terrorism by...how else?...taking away rights Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:

MOSCOW (AP) - President Vladimir Putin on Monday demanded an overhaul of Russia's political system, including an end to the direct popular election of governors, saying the changes were needed to combat terrorism.

Critics charged the Russian leader was using the bloody outcome of the Beslan school siege to grab more power.


The former KGB spy, saying the future of the country was at stake, called for creation of a powerful anti-terror agency "capable of not only dealing with terror attacks but also working to avert them, destroy criminals in their hideouts and, if necessary, abroad."

Some 430 people have been killed in terror attacks in Russia over the last three weeks, including 330 people in the bloody end to the school siege in Beslan in southern Russia. More than half the dead at the school were children. Ninety people died when suspected Chechen women suicide bombers blew up of two Russian airliners in flight.

Curiously, however, the Russian leader's proposals focused largely on electoral changes. Putin said he would propose legislation abolishing the election of local governors by popular vote. Instead they would be nominated by the president and confirmed by local legislatures. He said the change was needed to streamline and strengthen the executive branch to better combat terror.

Putin also asked for an overhaul of the way Russians elect their parliament. The entire 450 seats would be elected from candidates on party lists. At present about half are chosen that way, meaning many candidates can win seats while representing no party. It also had allowed a candidate to win a place in the legislature even if representing a party that garnered too few seats as an organization to win representation.

Critics warned that Putin's reliance on central control could weaken the nation further separating those in power from their constituents.

Since taking office in 1999, Putin has constantly worked to rein in the governors. He has tossed them out of Russia's upper house of parliament, appointing seven regional envoys to monitor them.

"Today, all the power agencies that are supposed to fight terrorism are subordinated directly to the president. ... It's incomprehensible why on top of that he has to name governors," Sergei Mitrokhin, a leading member of the liberal Yabloko faction, told Russia's Ekho Moskvy radio. "It shows that the president doesn't know what to do, he's at a loss."

Sergei Markov, a political analyst with close ties to the Kremlin, said the president's move against the governors could help curb corruption that has flourished in some regions.

"At the same time, it means ... a lowering of (their) general political authority and a serious lowering of political pluralism," Markov told Ekho Moskvy.

Vladimir Ryzhkov, one of the few opposition deputies in the State Duma, scorned the president's political proposals and warned that the next election would produce a Duma of "marionette party lists and (that) won't enjoy any authority."

Russians, however, feel that the elected governors and legislators are even more corrupt than Communist administrators in Soviet times. They also have traditionally clamored for a firm hand to restore order and now want action against terrorism, often telling journalists terrorist attacks would never have happened under the late dictator Stalin.

Putin also said official corruption had resulted in terrorists getting official travel and residence documents "leading to grave consequences." Putin named one of his closest confidants, Cabinet chief of staff Dmitry Kozak, to represent him in the southern district that includes the Caucasus, which he called "a key strategic region for Russia" and "a victim of terrorism and also a springboard for it."

He also proposed a new structure called the Public Chamber that he said would strengthen public oversight of the government and the actions of law enforcement agencies.

The Russian president, who in 1999 as Russia's prime minister ordered troops back into Chechnya after apartment bombings in Moscow blamed on Chechens, made the new proposals Monday to Cabinet members and security officials convened in special session.


ALL HAIL TEH PUTIN!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 05:59 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Hail to the new boss, same as the old boss.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:01 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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CCCP banzai!!!!!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:02 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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If only. Putin's is a capitalist dictatorship.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:02 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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They stole our idea.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:03 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Poor Russia.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:05
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Put an end to popups!

Somehow I knew this whining is coming.

pchang is offline pchang
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Cupertino?
Aug 1999
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:05
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Isn't there another thread for this?

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:09
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Put an end to popups!

Tassi surely has true knowledge of teh Lord Putin's intentions...

Verto is offline Verto

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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:12
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Got spare money?

[Tassadar]
If I wasn't on the verge of death due to my illness, I would be making my pilgrimage to Russia right now in Glorious Honor of this Noble Day.
[/Tassadar]

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:20
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w00t!

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:22 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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It was almost too predictable wasn't it?

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:25 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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putin banzai! banzai! banzai!
rossiya banzai! banzai! banzai!
putin dei, qui tollis rossiya mundi, miserere nobis!
putin dei, qui tollis rossiya mundi, dona nobis pacem!

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
Somehow I knew this whining is coming.


Which is worse: a dictatorship that you know is a dictatorship, or a dictatorship that pretends to be a democracy?

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:54 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:55
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I pasted an article hours ago in the other Russian thread, but got one comment in all

Well, this is unsurprising. But I don't expect Putin to get too many results with this. By further restricting local democracy, he risks alienating local populations, as happened to the USSR. His popularity as a strongman may prevent it for now, but should he continue in this path, he'll prepare a new wave of independences and territorial dispersion.

Serb is offline Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 06:55
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Pretends? Putin is a thousand times more democratic leader than Yeltsin or Gorbachev were.
Perhaps most of you guys do not get it- this new election law will fully affect only new president of Russia wchich will be elected in 2008. It's the year when new president will be elected, new parliament will be elected and majority of new governors will be appointed and aproved by local parliaments of the regions. And Putin WILL NOT be elected in 2008, since he already was elected the president of Russian Federation twice. He can't be elected third time, it's against our constitution. Alll current governors will stay in charge of their regions untill the end of their terms. The terms of absolute majority of governors will end after 2008, when Putin will not be a president anymore.
It's just a ****ing reform.
Go, Putin, go!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:04 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Four years is a lot of time to change the Constitution, which will be made consierably easier when the whole government is in his pocket.

I don't mind the legislatitive changes, but the change of governors is wrong. Governors should be beholden to the people, not the president.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:06
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quote:
Critics charged the Russian leader was using the bloody outcome of the Beslan school siege to grab more power.


*gasp* A leader using a terrorist attack to grab more power? Heavens, no!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:08 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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He learns well from his American master.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I pasted an article hours ago in the other Russian thread, but got one comment in all

Well, this is unsurprising. But I don't expect Putin to get too many results with this. By further restricting local democracy, he risks alienating local populations, as happened to the USSR. His popularity as a strongman may prevent it for now, but should he continue in this path, he'll prepare a new wave of independences and territorial dispersion.

Blah...blah...blah...
This will boost his popularity to the new level. Local populations (and I am one of those locals) are pretty tired of those local tsars who call themselves governors. You have no idea about Russian election of governors, each such election is parade of idiocy, lies, dirty PR and brainwashing. If you are elected for you first term- you can be pretty sure, you'll stay there for the second term- because you take control over local media, start to praise yourself, brainwash your population, etc. After a couple of years, nobody in your region will dare to chalenge your power- you are free to do whatever you wish. And governors with salaries of few thousand $$$ per month, start to build castles that cost millions. And nobody cares about that, because local law-enforcement bodies under comand of local governors and governors have almost complete imuunity. In other words- previous system was created by corrupt f*ckers and for corrupt f*ckers. Governor in my region was elected three times during last election his only opposition was the candidate from commies and it's pretty common situation for Russia.
Nobody will cry if all those corrupt old farts will leave forever, they've stolen enough already.
Go, Putin, go. Get those bastards

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:11 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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If corruption is a problem, the answer is not to end democracy. The answer is for the Feds to step in and toss out the corrupt leaders. Of course, the Republics only mirror the Federal level. Where is the independent media criticizing Putin?

Serb is offline Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:15
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You need links? I can give you plenty of links.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If corruption is a problem, the answer is not to end democracy.
Exactly. Democracy reduces corruption. Have we learned nothing from Civ?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:23
  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:19
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I agree with Chegitz: the answer to corruption by local officials is to send the federal police to break down on them and apply the law, the same way you got rid of the oligarchs.
Removing local democracy is not a solution, as governors may see their power grow unchallenged just the same, as long as they remain nice little brownnosers in Moscow.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Exactly. Democracy reduces corruption. Have we learned nothing from Civ?


I'll choose corruption over stupidity any day!

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:22
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Four years is a lot of time to change the Constitution, which will be made consierably easier when the whole government is in his pocket.

For Putin, to change constitution and appoint himself for the third term is to spit on his own policy. He wants to see Russia democracy.
Wanna bet? He will not the next president, despite this time he could get my vote (I never vote for him actually) and perhaps the votes of absolute majority of population.
quote:

I don't mind the legislatitive changes, but the change of governors is wrong. Governors should be beholden to the people, not the president.

But the problem is - now governors beholds to nobody.
One more thing, this new mechanism means deal between the region and federation- the head of state offers pool of candidates and local parliament of the region choose one of the candidates. Is it so undemocratic?

Serb is offline Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Exactly. Democracy reduces corruption. Have we learned nothing from Civ?

Communism is the best way do defeat corruption, besides it's the best system for a wartime and since we are at war now, go Putin, go.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 14-09-2004 07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
For Putin, to change constitution and appoint himself for the third term is to spit on his own policy. He wants to see Russia democracy.
Wanna bet? He will not the next president, despite this time he could get my vote (I never vote for him actually) and perhaps the votes of absolute majority of population.

I didn't know the constitution barred Putin from candidating a third time, but I agree with you that he won't spit on the constitution this way.
I don't think Putin wants a democracy in the meaning we understand it in the west. I think Putin wants an elective authoritarian system, i.e. one where the head of State has an immense power, but where it is possible to oust him through the vote.

 
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