14-09-2004 20:28									#31
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OMG THE USA IS NAZI GERMANY

	14-09-2004 20:32									#32
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Urban Vietnam.

	14-09-2004 20:43									#33
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As the say, a picture is worth a thousand words- a video far more. The worth of keeping some ammo out of the hands of insurgents was far lower than the harm of having a bunch of civilians, even ones celebrating a burning US vehicle, killed, especially in front of the cameras.

	14-09-2004 20:56									#34
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I imagine if they'd know there was a camera there, they wouldn't have fired.

	14-09-2004 21:00									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai And if they don't, it doesn't matter. Unarmed civilians are always valid targets in a war zone.

They weren't unarmed.

	14-09-2004 21:03									#36
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Who should we believe, Fez, you or our lying eyes?

	14-09-2004 21:06									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Who should we believe, Fez, you or our lying eyes?

How about your lying mouth and inability to see right?

	14-09-2004 21:09									#38
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I wonder what the rules of engagement are in this case.
Do the guys in the gunship have to get approval before they shoot?
Are they the ones who determine that there are "hostiles" down there as opposed to civilians?
Did they think there was still someone in the Bradley? (Unlikely from our POV... but they did not have our POV.)

	14-09-2004 22:27									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1303827,00.html Anyone celebrating helicopter gunships slaughtering civilians should be ashamed of themselves. Did you stop and think why they were celebrating in the first place?

Aye, which is why I get a warm fuzzy when realising that none of us were celebrating the demise of those poor evil fools.

	14-09-2004 23:15									#40
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1303827,00.html This guy was lucky to escape the scene with his life. Makes me sick. It's a vicious cycle, Americans kill/injure loads of civilians, Iraqis kill Americans, Americans retaliate and kill/injure another load of unarmed civilians, Iraqis want to kill more Americans and cheer / dance when they do. Anyone celebrating helicopter gunships slaughtering civilians should be ashamed of themselves. Did you stop and think why they were celebrating in the first place?

The Gunship did not fire on the crowd, it fired on the Bradly.

Believe me, with 20mm guns, they folkswould have been ripped to shreds. To me it looks like the injured Iraqis took shrapnel. (which would coincide with, I don't know, a missile to a Bradley that has Explosive Reactice Armor)

	14-09-2004 23:18									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Sure there is. Listen to the tape that was being filmed when the Bradely was fired upon by the helicopter. Hmmm, no gun fire. Guess the military's lying.

For me personally, that doesn't matter. It's SOP to prevent our vehicles and equipment into falling into the wrong hands. I would be the Helo arrived with the sole intent to blow up the Bradley. (and delayed while they radioed back if it was okay to fire a missile into the "GLA crowd.")

	15-09-2004 00:10									#42
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Thanks to SOP, another 37 people were liberated

	15-09-2004 00:14									#43
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I'm sorry it happened, but, as has already been commented, it was a Darwin award waiting to happen anyway.

	15-09-2004 14:11									#44
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Mike, I'm not "celebrating", but frankly, some people are too stupid to live.

	15-09-2004 14:41									#45
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Yeah, particularly journalists.

	15-09-2004 14:45									#46
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Sorry, that was aimed at Giancarlo. I should know better than to let him wind me up.

The video we saw clearly has the bombadier asking permission to fire at the crowd, not the vehicle.

	16-09-2004 01:10									#47
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They chant around burning corpses and complain when shot.. bah!

	16-09-2004 01:34									#48
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quote: Yeah, particularly journalists.

they're all liberal propagandist scum anyways.

	16-09-2004 04:44									#49
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this makes the Bradley fighting vehicles look like very bad military equipment

	16-09-2004 05:21									#50
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quote: As the say, a picture is worth a thousand words- a video far more. The worth of keeping some ammo out of the hands of insurgents was far lower than the harm of having a bunch of civilians, even ones celebrating a burning US vehicle, killed, especially in front of the cameras.

Yes, because your perspective watching a low quality shaky video allows you to see everything that was happening. I suppose a forward air observer and a dozen other probobly people watching on scene have nothing on your omnicience.

The normal problem is that the enemy wears civilian clothes so get counted as civilians when they get to hospitals. They made it easy this time by carrying a flag.

Good ridance.

	16-09-2004 05:30									#51
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Cool, we got two terrorists among the 35 who weren't! GO TEAM!

There are probably much better ways to destroy these vehicals without killing crowds.

	16-09-2004 05:32									#52
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I might as well say it here.

I was wrong, and stupid for initially supporting the Iraq war. I thought this administration could learn from it's mistakes, I was wrong. While the war was good in theory, in real life- it is horrifying.

I'm afraid we've lost this one folks.

	16-09-2004 05:42									#53
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quote: While the war was good in theory, in real life- it is horrifying.

Seems to be the case with all wars. The opposite opionion usually happens after the war.

	16-09-2004 05:43									#54
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War is stupid. Throw rocks at it.

	16-09-2004 05:47									#55
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There you go, thats your first step to revoloutionarydom, rock throwing!!!!

You really are the real deal.

	16-09-2004 05:48									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara War is stupid. Throw rocks at it.

while my initial thought was I would never support another war again, I know this is not true.

I still support the war in Afghanistan. I just wish they would do it right. I think we are dicking around over there, and not doing anything useful. Damn this administration.

	16-09-2004 05:55									#57
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quote: I just wish they would do it right. I think we are dicking around over there, and not doing anything useful.

Damn those professionals who know what their doing for not consulting Civilization players. Then they would know to starve the city to 1 and replace with Americans.

I don't think your ready to see what pacifying a country the "right way" looks like, as I believe Che alluded too somewhere else.

	16-09-2004 05:59									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Damn those professionals who know what their doing for not consulting Civilization players. Then they would know to starve the city to 1 and replace with Americans. I don't think your ready to see what pacifying a country the "right way" looks like, as I believe Che alluded too somewhere else.

I'm curious to what the right way is.

But in truth, I can care less about pacifying them.

find the terrorists and go home. If the goverment ends up as a fundamentalist goverment, so be it. Not every country has to be democratic. And if terrorist come back and seize control, we bomb them again. Much easier than trying to set up a demoratic goverment . I'll say it right now. It's impossible to force a goverment on a people in this day and age.

	16-09-2004 06:06									#59
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quote: Not every country has to be democratic.

I would agree, but unforuntely you have to have a do-gooder reason to drop the hammer these days. Logic and rational mean nothing these days.

	16-09-2004 06:11									#60
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nm