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drake is offline drake
King
Maine, US
Oct 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 16-09-2004 06:39 Visit drake's homepage!
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Hey all, long time no see. (well most of you anyway).

My summer chores are winding down and I am looking to seriously get another game going for old times sake.

I think we should try to come up with a game that we've never come up with before. Diplo games drag too long, and only several have ever been completed (and that's a stretch). Standard games run too short, don't require any imagination and employ the same strategy over and over again.

I think a new type of game with a set goal, a set end game (other than total annihilation or spaceship), is what we should try to come up with (that is if anyone is interested). Could go straight for population, or a money total. Perhaps first just to reach future technology one? Perhaps first civ to control a set number of wonders? Ideally the game would utilize science, military and economy. It would not be one night affair, but it would also not be a 3 month affair. I think a good number of players would be 4. Enough to have a variety of competition, little enough not to make it drag.

ozzy, deity, you guys would be great of course since I have the most history with you guys, but anyone whos interested let me know.

My optimal evenings would be mondays, wednesdays or thursdays.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 16-09-2004 07:31 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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Interested in a Civ3 Diplo?

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 16-09-2004 09:01
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Just quickly, I can do USA Weds and Thurs nights!!

later... great to hear from you Sir Francis.

(forget civ 3 - i lost my cd anyway)

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
Thumbs up  Old Post 16-09-2004 09:25
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OK, I had a quick think, sugestions:

* only take one city per turn
* no alliances (unless 6 players)
* no invasion cities
* city number limit? say 12?
* reduce attack strengths, howies etc
* one nuke per turn
* create a mix of win conditions worth set points -
SS = 20 points?
Each wonder = 2 points? (even Eiffel!!)
1 mill pop = 1 point
1000 gold = 1 point
pollution squares = -1 point

That's just to get discusion going. I'm sure the balaqnce can be improved. WE could even use the Civ points system!!! LOL

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 16-09-2004 09:28
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And set 2000 as the victory year!!!!

We've never played MP to that year and it gives us time to play after SS landing.

drake is offline drake
King
Maine, US
Oct 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 16-09-2004 18:49 Visit drake's homepage!
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Has civ 3 reached the dicount bin yet? No? Ok then, I don't own it. Sorry ozzy

Comig up with our own scoring system could be interesting deity. And I like most of the ideas as far as restrictions go. A set year to call the game, and use our points system to determine the winner sounds interesting. Don't think anyone has ever done that before.

Could just have a restricted units list, where civs would be prohibited from using certain units. That way we don't have to screw with any of the configs.

If I had to choose from either Wednesday or Thursday, I'd choose Thursday.

What do you mean by no "invasion cities" Deity?

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 17-09-2004 10:31
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Inflate your Upload Space

Invasion cities are when you plonk down an Engineer right near your opponent (like for example 2 squares from your cap) and build an instant city, fill it with transports full of attackers and belt the crap out of them... it negates naval power and discourages use of naval attacks.

I use it a lot and rarely use naval bombardment, marines etc.... I'd like to be told to stop it!

Deitry Dude, Makeo and possibly Ljube might be good for this timeslot.

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 17-09-2004 10:33
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Suffering from ads?

Thursday is perfect and I agree on banning certain units, like howies, artillery and spies.

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 17-09-2004 10:34
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And I hope ozzy plays too!

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 17-09-2004 19:11 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

Civ2? Booooring.

drake is offline drake
King
Maine, US
Oct 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 17-09-2004 19:24 Visit drake's homepage!
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Ok then.

NO INVASION CITIES!

Let's start ironing out some rules.

First off, let's set the number of players we need. I say 4 is a good number, with 5 being the max. I think we should play on a medium to large map, 1x1x, king, mid level barbs.

I think a city cap is a definite, and perhaps even unit cap. Also, I think we should somehow limit caravan creation and perhaps outlaw using caravans to help build wonders.

My main goal is to have a game that has an attainable end, and a setup that discourages slowness in the mid to end years. I want to break the cycle of games ending prematurely due to boredom
or logistics (games just become ridiculous when everyone has 50 units to move).

Perhaps simultaneous turns could be considered as well?

Throw some ideas out here.

drake is offline drake
King
Maine, US
Oct 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 17-09-2004 19:31 Visit drake's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

A simple "not interested" would suffice ozzy

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-09-2004 04:49 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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Booooooring.

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 19-09-2004 13:26
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so far it's just you and me drake

I suspect we'll hear from DD and Zylka soon, and possibly Makeo....

Deity Dude is offline Deity Dude
Prince
Westland, Michigan
Aug 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 23-09-2004 21:24
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OK - I might be interested

not sure if I like the point system idea

How aboout a few simple rules that will speed the game up:

12 city max
no caravans
no nukes

it seems to me the things that really slowdown mid-games are caravans and the amount of cities.

just a suggestion - Im pretty much open to anything.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 23-09-2004 21:36 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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Got spare money?

Yea, no caravans.

Makeo is offline Makeo
King
Reading, UK
Jan 1970
time: 22:23
  Old Post 23-09-2004 21:45 Visit Makeo's homepage!
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Hello.

I may be interested in this game. I will have one night a week for civ. US time, friday nights. I would like to get the classic diplo up and running again, but if that doesn't happen will be looking for a steady friday night game.

Deity Dude is offline Deity Dude
Prince
Westland, Michigan
Aug 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 23-09-2004 21:55
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oh yeah I guess I should have stated my available times

sun nite - thur nite after 8pm USA EST time

Im usually out of town friday and sat nites - at least until november

Ljube is offline Ljube
Emperor
Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:23
  Old Post 24-09-2004 05:51
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I'm interested. But I'm in a different time zone (Europe) and must work, so my involvement would depend on the timeframe.

And I like the point system

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 24-09-2004 13:26
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This game is planned for USA Weds or Thurs nights only Makeo. USA Fri night will be for Eurodip if it ever gets going again!

Thurs night looking most likely. Any chance Ljube and Makeo? It's your Friday morning EARLY!

OK, let's go with 12 city max and a points system for a change. Agreed on no caras to other civs.

Are you playing ozzy?

Makeo is offline Makeo
King
Reading, UK
Jan 1970
time: 22:23
  Old Post 24-09-2004 14:22 Visit Makeo's homepage!
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Nah sorry Deity. Can't make this game. I hope eurodip will get up and running again.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 24-09-2004 20:08 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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quote:
Are you playing ozzy?


No, i'm just complaining from the sidelines. I've got a diplogame starting up tomorrow.

drake2 is offline drake2
Settler

Sep 2004
time: 00:23
  Old Post 24-09-2004 22:45
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Sorry for the new UN, I got locked out of my other account for an unknown reason and tech support hasn't reactivated it yet. Go figure.

OK, so it looks like Deity, Dude, myself and hopefully llube at the moment. Let's shoot for 4 players, 5 only if we have someone dying to get in (which isn't likely).

Why don't we just set it at Thursdays 8pm US est, as the official start time, so we don't have any ambiguity.

No nukes is fine. I think a no howitzer rule would be good too, due to the simplicity that they create in city assault. Let's force new strategies.

12 city limit is a fine idea, it will make users define their territory in a new way, and ensure that city placement is well thought out. It will also force players to utilize their shields more effectively.

I think it will obviously have to be a 12 settler built city limit. We can't really penalize people for taking enemy cities over.

Why don't we just pull caravans out entirely. Again, it will encourage a quicker game, and make people think outside the box.

No alliances would be good. Perhaps no tech trading?

Perhaps a one city takeover per turn max, that way we avoid massive assaults that could take excessive amounts of time to wage. That might be too limiting I don't know.

What other things kill the game in the industrial age? Excessive units come to mind, but that should be controlled somewhat by the city limit.

I understand your reluctance about the points system DD, but the idea is that it will allow a civ to reach the high score in mutliple ways. A conqueror who takes over the world could win by sheer force alone, but a pacifist who tallies the most advances and wonders could also win. I'd guess the winner would likely have to be somewhat in the middle, but the scoring system should provide flexibility in this aspect.

With 2000 as the end date, people know exactly how long they have to get their **** together. There will be no question when the game ends. Having an end in sight is key in people keeping motivated. If 2000 is too late, perhaps we could lower as far as even 1900. Maybe 1950? I don't know, but the set end date I think is a great idea.

The goal is a game that explores all facets of civ, from ancient to modern, but is still finishable. If we set realistic expectations, we can create a game that is fast paced and exciting from the age of exploration, to the age of space.

Let's get more ideas and iron the game plan out.

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 25-09-2004 03:14
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Agree with most of that, including no caras for Wonder building or external trade, however internal caras are necessary and don't slow the game.

no alliances - yes
no tech trading - yes
1900 end date - yes
one city per turn - yes
no unit limit - yes
no nukes - yes
no howies - yes

deity or emp level?
no barbs?


We start next Thurs @ 8pm USA ?

Come on Ljube, you know you need it!
I'm sure Makeo is having another think

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
Question  Old Post 25-09-2004 03:38
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP


No, i'm just complaining from the sidelines. I've got a diplogame starting up tomorrow.


What diplo game? NOT civ3????

Makeo is offline Makeo
King
Reading, UK
Jan 1970
time: 22:23
  Old Post 25-09-2004 15:08 Visit Makeo's homepage!
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haha, how do wonder building caras slow the game and internal trading ones not slow the game. your just eliminating the one that you don't use but keeping the one that you do. can't have it both ways.

Dylan Baker is offline Dylan Baker
Warlord
Washington, DC
Feb 2001
time: 05:23
  Old Post 26-09-2004 03:13
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[Caddyshack]Yes, winter rules.[/Caddyshack]

Any room?

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 26-09-2004 07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Makeo
haha, how do wonder building caras slow the game and internal trading ones not slow the game. your just eliminating the one that you don't use but keeping the one that you do. can't have it both ways.



Hey, I didn't mean to link cara-wonder building with slow play! But drake said to think oputside the box and it would be good to eliminate cara-wonder building, yes?

Otherwise, I'm easy but definitely no external cara routes. That DOES slow down play.

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
Thumbs up  Old Post 26-09-2004 07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Dylan Baker
[Caddyshack]Yes, winter rules.[/Caddyshack]

Any room?


Definitely. You'd be welcome I'm sure.

So far only drake, deity & DD are definites. Hoping on Ljube and if that makes 5 I think that'll be perfect. Don't think we'll be getting Makeo though.

deity is offline deity
Emperor
Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:23
  Old Post 26-09-2004 09:44
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I just had a brain wave.. it still hurts....

I'm getting inspired about this point system. We could allow multiple SS landings!

First SS to land = 30 points
Second = 20 points
Third = 15 points
Fourth = 10 points
Fifth = 5 points

This means that the 28 Wonders at 2 points each may be prioritised diferently. This allows a civ with a slower SS but more Wonders to catch up.

 
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