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Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 06:01
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BBC? Biased? No Way! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Finally found a good and extensive study of the BBC use of language in bias against Israel and Israeli actions.

Its long but it demonstrates perfectly what I've been blaming the BBC for very long.

I'm glad someone had the energy to prove it.

http://www.bbcwatch.com/newreport.html

(mozilla crashed on me)

Jaguar is offline Jaguar
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 06:02
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You need a link.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 18-09-2004 06:03
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What? The fact that he found it is proof enough!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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It may not be that the Beeb is biased against Israel. Rather, it might be, they don't want to piss of their own government. A more accurate comparison might focus on the coverage of Israel/Palestina and Russia/Chechnya.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 06:23
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quote:
You need a link.


That's shrink. He needs a shrink.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 11:34
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The BBC is biased because it describes the Israeli military as being Israeli.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
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Doesn't BBC know how much the Israeli people have suffered?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
The BBC is biased because it describes the Israeli military as being Israeli.


No. It is biased in the same way that much of the world is biased due to being tired of a near-sixty year old war that never seems to go away.

We have become numb to it. We wish it to simply go away. We backed 'them' for many years and yet it was still with us, in fact it got worse. Now the BBC, and others, back the other 'them' in hopes that it will finally go away. As if the bias of 'us' will help solve things for 'them(s).

Nevermind that neither side is 'right'. Nevermind that taking sides hasn't helped. Let's just pick a side and hope.

Where is the outlet that reports that the Pal leadership are scumbags and muderers, who wouldn't merit an honourable mention in any honourable contest, and at the same time the Israelis have been doing some bad **** themselves? Who says that? No one.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 12:40
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quote:

The coalition forces, although claiming to be defending the security of their own countries, singularly failed to convince popular opinion that Iraq posed a real threat. By contrast popular opinion clearly accepts that the Israeli army is defending its civilian population from a very real threat which does constantly claim Israeli lives[1]. This difference between the two conflicts, if it affected an impartial news provider at all, would logically tend to result in Israel receiving a more sympathetic coverage than did the coalition forces. The opposite is in fact the case.


This is one of the opening paragraphs. Does it improve from that, or is it bullshit all the way?

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 12:44
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Sirotnikov- how long has your "study" of the BBC lasted? While Rabin and Barak were in power there was a real air of hope in this country and positive stories galore. If the BBC is simply anti-Israel, how do you account for that?

The impression I get from the BBC is that since Sharon started sticking his oar in there's been a slide downhill with the usual vile crap from both sides you get in an urban warzone. Perhaps I'm wrong and the Israeli forces are all shining paragons of virtue, but to accept that would challenge my theories on human nature in general.

Everyone thinks the BBC is biased against them That's a good state of affairs, if you want my opinion.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 12:53
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quote:

The BBC goes to considerable lengths to explain, excuse and mitigate any civilian deaths at the hands of coalition troops.


Bullshit.

quote:

We are aware that, during the Iraq conflict, the BBC was heavily criticised in the UK for being too harsh in its treatment of coalition motives and tactics. This report does not seek to comment on that criticism.


Yes- it does tend to leave your comparison look like a big pile of poo, doesn't it? Best not to mention that fact, really.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 12:58
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The BBC consistently omits any direct and explicit expression of coalition culpability for Ali's injuries saying merely, “…[the] Iraqi boy who had both arms blown off…when a missile hit his Baghdad home…”. By failing explicitly to state that it was a US or UK bomb that maimed Ali and destroyed his family, the BBC glosses over coalition guilt and spares it negative publicity.


Well, shucks. Whose bomb was it going to be? A stray one dropped by the Comoros Air Force? I saw those stories and was left in absolutely no doubt that it was an allied bomb that had done it.

Siro- did you exercise any degree of critical assessment when you read this? It's insulting my intelligence, and I really don't think the gap between our respective IQ's is that large.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:00
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How many civilians dead in bombing of Baghdad, Laz? How many column inches (or minutes of air time) in depicting British and American forces as brutal conquerors?

The bias is there for you to observe, Laz. It is a bomb, sans frontiers, that kills Iraqis. It is an Israeli bomb that kills Palestinians. It might not be accurate, but you'd have to do more than scream 'poo' to counter it.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:06
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quote:

The occurrence of suicide attacks in Iraq strikes instant parallels with the Palestinian suicide attacks against Israel. It is important to note that Palestinian suicide attacks are almost always directed against non-military targets. Iraqi suicide attacks were targeted against the US and UK military - an invading army of contested international legitimacy. Yet – a suicide attack against US marines in Iraq is described by the BBC as an act of terrorism[12]. In Israel it is the work of a “militant”.



....and yet 30 seconds of work with Google produces the following BBC article...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1693876.stm

...which calls Hamas terrorists and explains why they are terrorists.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:08
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quote:

Hamas is divided into two main spheres of operation:


social programmes like building schools, hospitals and religious institutions
military action and terror attacks carried out by Hamas' armed underground wing Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/1654510.stm

Sandman is offline Sandman
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Aug 2001
time: 05:23
  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:23
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Here's an Iraq story from the BBC today:

quote:
Iraqi 'militants' held after raid

US and Iraqi forces have arrested 63 suspected militants during a major security operation in central Baghdad.
Amid gun battles, they sealed off the Haifa Street area in response to mortar attacks on nearby Iraqi ministries and the US and British embassies.

Iraqi police say those held include Syrians, Lebanese and Egyptians.

During the operation, a car packed with explosives rammed a police convoy in the Rashid Street district, killing three policemen and injuring 37 people.

Earlier, American troops foiled another attack when they shot at a car containing at least one suicide bomber, who drove at their checkpoint near the River Tigris.

There was also violence in the restive city of Falluja, west of Baghdad, where at least three people were killed in a new US air strike on Friday.

The US military described it as "another successful precision strike" on "foreign terrorists" led by Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

The US had previously said it killed up to 60 militants in air attacks aimed at Mr Zarqawi and his followers in and around Falluja.

The health ministry said 44 people had been killed.

Falluja and surrounding areas have been a hotbed of resistance to US forces and the interim Iraqi government.

The US military announced on Friday that another of its soldiers had been killed during "security and stability operations" in the Falluja area.

Witnesses near Rashid Street said an attacker drove up to a convoy of six police vehicles before blowing up his car at about 1230 local time (0830 GMT).

A large crater was gouged in the road and US troops and Iraqi police tried to clear the area, as ambulances rushed to treat the wounded.


"The suicide bomber was driving a Chevrolet Malibu. He smashed his car against the police vehicle," interior ministry spokesman Adnan Abdul Rahman was quoted as saying by the AFP news agency.

Correspondents say the Rashid Street area of Baghdad is usually teeming with shoppers, but is traditionally less crowded on a Friday, the first day of the weekend in Iraq.

The earlier car-bomb blast came as suspected suicide attackers drove towards a security checkpoint near the Tigris river that flows through the heart of Baghdad.

Reports say the car blew up when it was fired on.

In the southern city of Basra, one British soldier was injured during clashes with fighters loyal to militant Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr.

British troops later raided Mr Sadr's office in the city.

"During their search of the building, a large quantity of weapons and explosives were found," said a British military spokesman.


A funny idea of 'omitting culpability.'

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:24
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3657652.stm

quote:
Israel raids kill 10 Palestinians

It is the bloodiest day in the West Bank for months
Ten Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces making back-to-back raids in two northern West Bank towns.
Fighting began in Nablus before dawn when troops from an elite commando unit surrounded a building holding suspected militants in the Old City.

Five fighters from the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and another group were killed. A Palestinian girl was shot by troops after the fighting, witnesses said.


Here's an example. I can't recall the last time I read one of these reports without some child being killed by 'troops' 'according to witnesses'. This one 'after the fighting' too. Gosh, they like blood.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:31
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The question is this- does that imply that Israeli soldiers are crap at shooting, or that Palestinian kids are too ****ing stupid to duck?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:32
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Curiously, the murdered child is not the story. It would be to me. No, the story is that the Israelis wasted 9 or 10 bad guys, oh and they killed a child after the shooting stopped for good measure.

The child is thrown in there as sort of a salad course between the soup and the entre. Noone really ever remembers it, it's just there with every meal.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Curiously, the murdered child is not the story. It would be to me. No, the story is that the Israelis wasted 9 or 10 bad guys, oh and they killed a child after the shooting stopped for good measure.



That's just down to how we react. To me, the main story would be "the bloodiest day in the West Bank for months".

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
How many civilians dead in bombing of Baghdad, Laz? How many column inches (or minutes of air time) in depicting British and American forces as brutal conquerors?

The bias is there for you to observe, Laz. It is a bomb, sans frontiers, that kills Iraqis. It is an Israeli bomb that kills Palestinians. It might not be accurate, but you'd have to do more than scream 'poo' to counter it.


Sorry- missed this one.

From the BBC, this very morning.

(Edit- correction. It was last Monday)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3652174.stm

Buck Birdseed is offline Buck Birdseed
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Er... The BBC is a paragon of goose-step pro-Israel reporting compared to most Swedish media. Here the idea is to show the true picture, namely that Israel is a fascist oppressor of the palestinian people, which is the only version of events that has any verisimilitude.

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 17:28
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What strikes this American as funny is that there is a BBC at all. Socialized broadcasting is an anachronism that should be ended.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 17:50
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quote:
....and yet 30 seconds of work with Google produces the following BBC article...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1693876.stm

...which calls Hamas terrorists and explains why they are terrorists.

Great
You had to seek a 3 year old article to find the almost single time the BBC refers to Hamas as terrorists.

Sadly however this example is statistically insignificant, especially when you consider the most important part of BBC work - Its television and radio - where they continuously refer to Hamas as "militants".


You like to downplay the effects of the mitigating circumstances and slightly different wording used by the BBC, claiming its all a bunch of poop and amounts to nothing.

However that is untrue. What it does amount to is a continuous attempt to give british and american forces actions a context (which is always mitigating, since they do act with logic), and contrary to that, there is a continuous BBC attempt to report the Israeli actions as "lacking" context.

When the BBC reports "US marines attacked a speeding Iraqi car full of civilians because they disobyed orders to stop, and the marines are afraid of the attacks, which occur daily in checkpoints" the BBC-crowd usually goes "oh, those poor soldiers have to face such difficult decisions".

When the BBC reports "Israeli soldiers shot a Palestinian car full of civilians in an imposed roadblock which amounts to mass punishment" the BBC-crowd usually goes "oh, those bastard intolerant trigger happy Israeli soldiers".

While in reality- the two cases are exactly the same.


I know you like to think that you're so smart that it has no effects on you and your critical reading ability allows you to see straight through those nonsense - but I think you're wrong. I think that hearing on a daily basis how the Israelis killed palestinians, without hearing of the circumstances, amounts to creating a false picture of the events.


An example in the article I brought shows how much the BBC went out of its way to explain that a camera is very similar to an RPG, when American troops accidentally shot a camera man.


When Israeli troops did that however, there was no such attempt, and the viewers were left with the suggestion that the Israelis may have done that on purpose. The article even omits that it happenned during the night, and during a fire-exchange.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 18:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Er... The BBC is a paragon of goose-step pro-Israel reporting compared to most Swedish media. Here the idea is to show the true picture, namely that Israel is a fascist oppressor of the palestinian people, which is the only version of events that has any verisimilitude.


Your use of fancy words in hope it gives your claims credibility is especially amusing.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Great
You had to seek a 3 year old article to find the almost single time the BBC refers to Hamas as terrorists.


Do I get a "great" for the 2004 one too?

Let me reassure you that we get plenty of coverage of suicide bomb attacks on Israeli civilians on the BBC. No attempt is made to cover that up or make heroes of the bomber.

quote:

I know you like to think that you're so smart that it has no effects on you and your critical reading ability allows you to see straight through those nonsense - but I think you're wrong. I think that hearing on a daily basis how the Israelis killed palestinians, without hearing of the circumstances, amounts to creating a false picture of the events.


Whereas you yourself are possessed with the 100% insight of omnipresence coupled with a natural ability to discern "The Truth!" from your own crusading and unbiased media sources?

I get my news from many sources, and I don't think the BBC is on any sort of anti-Israel crusade. The cultural divide may account for much- in Britain right now the words "Arab militant" or "Arab fanatic" probably arouse far more fear and loathing than "terrorist". Through watching the BBC, I think my nation's public are quite satisfied that among Hamas are wings that make the IRA look like Carmelite nuns.

Buck Birdseed is offline Buck Birdseed
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Actually it's cause I couldn't think of any other synonym for "true". I've done way too much philosophy at university.

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 18-09-2004 18:48
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Why don't you Brits simply sell the BBC to the highest bidder?

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quote:
[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp [/SIZE
I get my news from many sources, and I don't think the BBC is on any sort of anti-Israel crusade. The cultural divide may account for much- in Britain right now the words "Arab militant" or "Arab fanatic" probably arouse far more fear and loathing than "terrorist".


The same thought occured to me. I'm baffled at the assumption in Sirotnikov's accusation that "militant" or "fanatic" somehow whitewashes the Palestinians and portrays them as the good guys.

Buck Birdseed is offline Buck Birdseed
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I assume in the Nedaverse there are private, ad-financed channels that produce quality programming.

 
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