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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:23
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Obviously, you have no concept of what goes on in university programs. If all we did was numbercrunching, we'd have computers for that.
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Yes, but there is a big difference between doing science and with writing a creative paper.
I never felt all that creative in my science classes, as it was always rote and more rote. Students sitting down and copying off the overhead. No discussions whatsoever.
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Somebody has to solve the problems. Somebody has to think. And I'm talking real thinking here, not the "thinking" you get with ethics courses. Where we do not argue if it's ethical to save a burning baby against its mothers wishes, but try to figure out how to write the most efficient algorithms to, say, fold proteins...
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Number crunching dressed up.
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Scientists, in general, don't have to lie to make a living. Most lawyers do this without thinking. Politicians do it, as well (funny how many lawyers become politicians).
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Actually, I know several very decent lawyers. One of them used to be an engineer, and find his time much better compensated as a lawyer than as an engineer.
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It's generally impossible to lie in science, or if you do you're caught and severely punished (see the Bell Labs incident last year).
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If you're caught, and even then, you aren't likely to be arrested, or prevented from continuing your profession.
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You're seriously unaware that your education is heavily subsidized by the Canadian government?
You pay a minority of the cost it takes to educate you. The rest comes from society in the form of taxpayers.
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Which is what I argued at UBC, to raise my tuition to better reflect the cost of education. Can you blame me for paying only what everyone else did?
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There's nothing wrong with it, of course. I do take issue with lots of public funds being used to teach useless courses that do not benefit society in return.
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I started as a Physics and Astronomy major. So please, tell me how such a screening process prevented me from attending UBC in the first place.
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Such as you taking a whole degree in something trivial (was it history?), and then end up doing something that you don't even need a high school diploma to do.
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You think I plan to be a construction worker all my life? No. It's a means of support while I seek other avenues.
Also, you have to consider that most of my contribution to society is not compensated financially. So I have proved a benefit, even if I don't get paid. The market does not reflect total benefits to society. In fact, one could argue just the opposite.
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You're uber-right-wing, don't you see the wastefulness of your behavior?
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Not if it permits me to do work that doesn't compensate me.
And if you have a problem with me working as a construction worker and wasting my degree, why don't you pay me to write full time?
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Yes, but there is a big difference between doing science and with writing a creative paper.
I never felt all that creative in my science classes, as it was always rote and more rote. Students sitting down and copying off the overhead. No discussions whatsoever. |
That's because you need to have the necessary tools to engage in the discussion.
You have to do a helluva lot more real, critical, analytical thinking in a research paper in university sciences than you think. Not to mention the problem-solving skills you need...
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Number crunching dressed up. |
In the same sense that philosophy is a grammar class dressed up, or literature is a spelling class dressed up.
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Actually, I know several very decent lawyers. One of them used to be an engineer, and find his time much better compensated as a lawyer than as an engineer. |
Likely, given how lawyers make a lot of money being professional liars.
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If you're caught, and even then, you aren't likely to be arrested, or prevented from continuing your profession. |
Untrue, you're usually stripped of your degree from your university (as was the case with Bell Labs). He's even being charged, IIRC. Fraud or something.
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I started as a Physics and Astronomy major. So please, tell me how such a screening process prevented me from attending UBC in the first place. |
Who said anything about a screening process? Obviously these philosophy courses aren't as useful as people think, since it's very rare for them to even understand what an argument is about, it seems...
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You think I plan to be a construction worker all my life? No. It's a means of support while I seek other avenues. |
Good on you. But you, yourself, have admitted in other threads that your degree hasn't gotten you a job.
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Also, you have to consider that most of my contribution to society is not compensated financially. So I have proved a benefit, even if I don't get paid. The market does not reflect total benefits to society. In fact, one could argue just the opposite. |
I forgot that we benefit from your uber-religious rants, for which we definintely must be thankful for your education...
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And if you have a problem with me working as a construction worker and wasting my degree, why don't you pay me to write full time? |
Because you don't deserve it.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:23
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That's because you need to have the necessary tools to engage in the discussion.
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What discussion is there? You have your assignments, and when you get them returned, then you go back to the lectures.
What would you discuss about when the prof has the final say, and you have a tremendous amount of material to plow through?
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You have to do a helluva lot more real, critical, analytical thinking in a research paper in university sciences than you think. Not to mention the problem-solving skills you need...
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And the number of research papers I did in science? None. They don't do papers. They have assignments instead.
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Likely, given how lawyers make a lot of money being professional liars.
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My friend is a patent lawyer, so I guess patents are just a bunch of lies that should be abolished in favour of everything being public domain. 
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Untrue, you're usually stripped of your degree from your university (as was the case with Bell Labs). He's even being charged, IIRC. Fraud or something.
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Not usually no. The most I've ever seen is a slap on the wrist for this sort of thing.
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Good on you. But you, yourself, have admitted in other threads that your degree hasn't gotten you a job.
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If you know so much about me, then what degree do I have, Asher?
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I forgot that we benefit from your uber-religious rants, for which we definintely must be thankful for your education...
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No, this isn't what I'm talking about as a benefit to society.
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Because you don't deserve it.
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Right, and I suppose you would pay someone to write full time if he were better?
Don't make me laugh.
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:23
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
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The cognitivists are wrong. |
Now, now.. they are wrong to you, Kuci... let's not get trapped in the absolutist model.  |
I'm not talking about different morals. There is absolute truth a priori, in the form of tautologies. However, most of what is commonly termed "philosophy" cannot be broken down and proved using propositional logic, whereas in math almost everything has a very rigorous proof.
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Understanding how human societies and economies work. |
Bah, bah, bah... who cares how people lived in the Middle Ages to understand present day society and economics? If you are making policy, all you really have to know about society and economics is from the last 200 or so years. |
Not at all. History from long before that has far-reaching modern implications.
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Philosophy is something that should be developed personally, not imposed by others. |
*points to Bible belt* |
* Kuciwalker is an atheist
* Kuciwalker obviously doesn't approve
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No one imposes philosophy on others in these classes. |
Teaching your philosophy, that is, teaching that your philosophy is right, is an imposition.
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
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Doing general problem solving will teach you critical thinking far better |
Bullshit. Critical thinking is taking an argument apart and analyizing it in detail. Math ain't going to do that. It'll teach you how to deal with numbers, but it ain't going to jack for actual arguments. |
you have never taken a real math class, have you?
Jon Miller
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21-09-2004 00:15
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