14-03-2005 16:40									#61
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He deserves it.

You two have been taken in by Bush's latest spin....

Jesus.. this is getting hilarious... Iraq is still a mess, but now it's a political mess too and the Repugs are sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling lalalalala

..and the Iranians, Chinese and North Koreans are telling them to stick it as well.

*gloats.

	14-03-2005 16:46									#62
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Oh I forgot my personal favourite.

Bush spent the week spinning the Lebanon protests as the revolt of the vast majority of Lebanese against their Syrian overlords.

A pity that a few days later Hezbollah managed to dwarf the protests of the so-called "majority" with its "**** off America and Israel!" rally.

What was even funnier was watching the Hezbollah protests on CNN as the anchors were trying to dismiss it as a minority of fanatics whilst we were being shown video of what looked like about a million Lebanese protestors.

*gloats at Hezbollah pwning Bush.

*gloats at the pathetic attempts of the American media to hide it.

*gloats again at nothing in particular.

Last edited by Agathon on 14-03-2005 at 16:59

	14-03-2005 16:53									#63
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Agathon, surely by now you feel too vindicated to really give a f*ck? I personally think it would be silly for the US to withdraw because then Iraq will really go downhill. They made a commitment when they invaded, idiotic as it was, and they now have to see it through until Iraq is well again. If they didn't understand that when they went in, well it's chuckletown for Rummy!

	14-03-2005 16:56									#64
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quote: Agathon, surely by now you feel too vindicated to really give a f*ck? I personally think it would be silly for the US to withdraw because then Iraq will really go downhill.

They might as well withdraw. This stupid 2/3 majority business has rendered the Iraqi elections useless.

They might as well leave it to the Iraqis to sort it out themselves. At least they'd get something they wanted instead of something Bush wants.

Iraq will never be well as long as foreign meddlers have a hand in it.

Besides - this notion that they can't sort it out themselves is exactly the same sort of colonialist mentality the British had when they invaded Iraq. And we know how wrong they were...

	14-03-2005 17:00									#65
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Behold the minority of fanatical anti-American Lebanese.

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	14-03-2005 17:02									#66
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The "vast majority" of Lebanese love America!!!

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	14-03-2005 17:04									#67
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Most of all they hate Syria... no wait.. this is a pro-Syrian march.. I wonder what the "foreign interference" could be...

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	14-03-2005 18:07									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Oh I forgot my personal favourite. Bush spent the week spinning the Lebanon protests as the revolt of the vast majority of Lebanese against their Syrian overlords.

I thjought that what he was doing was more along the lines of demanding that they leave after thay had already announced their plans to depart. He appears to be using this episode as a cheap, risk free means of looking tough.

	14-03-2005 18:17									#69
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Does Bush really need any more means of looking tough?

	14-03-2005 18:32									#70
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Evidently he thinks so.

	14-03-2005 18:34									#71
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I guess it's impossible that he actually cares about getting the Syrians out of Lebanon...

	15-03-2005 05:53									#72
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Given his track record of vile evil it's legitimate to doubt his motives.

	15-03-2005 05:55									#73
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He is indeed teh evil. Chimphitler...

	15-03-2005 06:10									#74
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No mention of the even larger anti-Syrian rally held today which pwnd the pro-Syrian hezbollah rally? Figures.

	15-03-2005 06:18									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin No mention of the even larger anti-Syrian rally held today which pwnd the pro-Syrian hezbollah rally? Figures.

Why would there be? It contradicts Agathon's point and is therefore irrelevent to him.

	15-03-2005 08:15									#76
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800,000 strong...

	15-03-2005 11:03									#77
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quote: No mention of the even larger anti-Syrian rally held today which pwnd the pro-Syrian hezbollah rally?

Believe that and you'll believe anything. Looks like the anti-Syrian forces got bummed at being shown up by Hezbollah.

Our media were back to their usual effusive selves, gushing over these protests as if they were somehow a more legitimate expression of public opinion than the Hezbollah protest (which looks to have had similar numbers - the claims of millions are a joke - there are only about 4 million people in Lebanon IIRC).

Our media are so pathetically biased that they should all be lined up and shot. But hey... they take themselves so seriously that you have to laugh.

A pity that people protesting against US military occupation never get the same press (Koreans, Okinawans, etc.)

	15-03-2005 11:05									#78
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I rest my case.

	15-03-2005 11:06									#79
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The estimated turn-out at the opposition protest (anti-syrian) is expected at 1 million. This is very much so possible considering a large portion of the crowd was young.

People protesting against the US military operations in Iraq don't deserve any press because they are wrong and ignorant.

	15-03-2005 11:07									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo People protesting against the US military operations in Iraq don't deserve any press because they are wrong and ignorant.

	15-03-2005 11:11									#81
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It's not even that. They guess 800, 000 and attribute 500,000 to the Hezbollah protest the other day.

But you'd have to be a moron to believe that. I've been to protests with tens of thousands of people and the "numbers" depend on who's counting and what their interest is. With the anti-war marches a few years back you could predict the relative counts from the different papers even before the protests started - it was so comical.

And we all know what the bias of our press is. When Hezbollah organized a protest that dwarfed the previous ones, did we see effusive praise of how this was the will of many Lebanese?

Of course not...

But now of course it's different..

At least it isn't as bad as the pathetic reporting about the Ukraine thing was... at least yet.

Why anyone bothers watching the news is beyond me. Frankly, it's the bullshit hour for the most part.

	15-03-2005 11:12									#82
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It is exactly that. Again you can stop lying to yourself. It doesn't make you look good. After the Churchill thread, you really have no credibility to speak. And you are full of bullshit.

	15-03-2005 11:13									#83
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I love being right.

	15-03-2005 11:19									#84
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quote: I love being right.

You must be a sad guy, with all the unrequited love then.

Seriously, is this the best that you righties can do? You really are quite lame.

At least the liberals put up a better fight.

	15-03-2005 11:21									#85
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Why do you feel the need to consistently prove my point?

	15-03-2005 11:27									#86
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Is it possible that US foreign policy in the region is polarizing public opinion in a way which strengthens Iran? By kneecapping the Saddams and the Assads and by provoking a crisis in Lebanon, Bush removes the main obstacles to Shia fundmentalist power.

Hezbollah gains strength in Lebanon, the US must depend on the goodwill of the Shia in southern Iraq, for which reason they can't attack Iran, which is busy building nuclear weapons. In the end, the fragile, transplanted western "democracy" whithers under the flourishing Islamism of the Iranian mullahs.

Or so the Asian Times suggests:

quote: No woolier idea ever found its way into foreign policy than the premise that democracy will promote Middle East peace. Nemesis overtakes the tragic hero at the extreme of hubris, and now the Bush tragedy has plunged into its second act just when the US president was confident that democracy would sweep through the region (George W Bush, tragic character, November 25, 2003). The great slapping sound heard around Washington last week was the shutting mouths of conservative pundits after Hezbollah put half a million supporters in the streets of Beirut March 8. On March 4, the Washington Post's Charles Krauthammer bragged of "the dawn of a glorious, delicate, revolutionary moment in the Middle East". The National Review's John Derbyshire opined prematurely that "this has been a bad few weeks for us pessimists ... with 1989-style demonstrations out in the streets of Beirut". A prominent Bush detractor, Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria, conceded that "Bush is right" and "may change the world". That was then. On March 11, Krauthammer had forgotten about the Middle East and devoted his column to the ethics of frozen embryos. Hezbollah's Hasan Nasrullah has laid a cuckoo's egg in the nest of US policy, conjuring up the specter of a terrorist democracy. US planners long have worried that Iraq's Islamist al-Da'wa party might find common cause with Hezbollah. With Da'wa chief Ibrahim Jaafari about to become Iraq's prime minister, Lebanese circumstances endanger the entire US venture in Mesopotamia. Bush appears to face a tragic choice: allow Iran to become a nuclear power with a veto on the ground in Lebanon as well as Iraq, or use force against Iran and its supporters. Unless Bush is willing to use (or permit Israel to use) nuclear weapons, the second alternative is next to unworkable. If he chooses the first alternative, the odds that radical Islam will triumph over the West rise sharply.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GC15Ak05.html

	15-03-2005 11:46									#87
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Is it possible that US foreign policy in the region is polarizing public opinion in a way which strengthens Iran? By kneecapping the Saddams and the Assads and by provoking a crisis in Lebanon, Bush removes the main obstacles to Shia fundmentalist power.

I think the removal of Saddam is strengthening Shi'a moderates. Not all Shi'as are fundamentalist. Man you always must try and try to make the situation look bad. It doesn't always turn out your way. It is turning out my way.

	15-03-2005 14:11									#88
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Go figure that the opinions of Syria in Lebanon is divided. It's not like you have a civil war for fifteen years or so if there's a concensus on things like that. Estimating the numbers of protestors is usually very hard. That the estimated figures vary a lot a seems to be connected with the bias of some groups or interests shouldn't really come as a suprise to anyone but the most naive observer.

	15-03-2005 14:17									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin It's not like you have a civil war for fifteen years or so if there's a concensus on things like that.

	15-03-2005 16:50									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon A pity that people protesting against US military occupation never get the same press (Koreans, Okinawans, etc.)

I remember when I was living on Okinawa that there were occasional protests (organized by communist groups) at the gates to military bases. Typically these consisted of one or two dozen people with signs. By the time these stories were reported in the papers in Japan however the numbers were inflated by 1.5-2+ orders of magnitude. Apparantly the Japanese press of the era had more than a few communist sympathizers for whom the truth meant nothing at all.

I was just back on Okinawa this October, and it's obvious that a majority of Okinawans want the troops to stay. It is just as obvious that they know that if they keep b!tchin' about the American bases that they'll continue to receive huge subsidies from the Japanese government.