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Jon Miller
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no, New York is only one example
consider the moon, or the sun
Jon Miller
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:23
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I like to write. I don't consider myself a writter, but I just write sometimes. Here is the start of a story I write when I feel like writting... It's about a bunch of idiots searching for the origion of the universe. It's rather fun... to write that is, reading it kindof suks.
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THE BEGINNING
In the beginning there was darkness, and then there was more darkness, until it was so dark that someone got really sick of it and said, “Man, it is really dark.”
And then someone else said, “Yup.”
Then the first voice said, “Can we do anything about it?”
And the other voice said, “Nope.”
So, the darkness went on for some time. It was a rather boring time, and not much happened at all. Then, in the darkness, the voice came, not the first voice the second one, “Hey!”
“What,” said the first voice.
“This.”
“What is this?”
“I don’t know, pull it?”
“O.k.”
And then there was light, a lot of light… and a weird smell.
THE MIDDLE
The universe was created in a day, this day, the day when the first voice pulled something in the dark and made stuff happen. That voice became known as the Creator. Not at first, mind you, it took some time before there was actually anyone to know of the Creator, or at least wonder where they came from. The big problem, however, came when these ones to know the Creator, let’s just call them “people”, started thanking and praising the Creator, the second voice got rather mad. Heck, why not? The second voice did find the thing to pull, but no, the Creator took all the credit.
So time passed. The “people” became rather “civil” and created a nice little “civilization” (fine, I’ll drop the quotes) of about four or five billion people that spread out across the planet called earth, which was relatively near where the thing that was pulled was located. They had cities, cars, planes, pretty much all the stuff we think of the modern day earth of having. Around this time, which was a long time after the thing was pulled and a little while after the people showed up, that some guy named Preston Herrington asked, “So what was that thing that was pulled?”
This was the beginning of the end.
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Pretty much, man, you're wasting your time.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:23
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I have never seen, heard, or read about any theologian admitting that his brand of religion is limited. Especially Christian theologians.
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That there are areas that they do not understand?
All theologians say that they cannot wholly conceive the mind of God, ergo, they know their religion to be limited in understanding God.
If they say otherwise, then we know this to be a fallacy, that if God is omniscient, then they would be unable to wholly conceive the mind of God, even if they claimed to have done so.
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The same old "god of the gaps" argument.
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Am I limiting God's involvement in the world to the time before Planck time? No. I'm saying that it is possible for God to intervene throughout history, rather than confining him to a gap.
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If you could show conclusively that this universe needs a first mover, and that your god does not, you are better than any of the theologians ever lived. Make that you are better than all of them combined.
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That's the real merit behind Anselm, in saying that if there were a power higher than God, or if what we called God had a mover before him, then we would call that being God.
If you say we have a finite universe, then it does not make sense that there can be an infinite regress of causality. There must be something that starts the whole process off.
Therefore, there must be a First Mover, of whatever sort, that by definition becomes God.
Now, if YHWH were not this first mover, in having a cause, then this First Mover would be God, and not YHWH. I cannot go from the principle of a First Mover to YHWH without additional presuppositions.
So from the combination of both principles, it seems obvious that there must be a First Mover, and regardless of that First Mover, we would call that First mover God.
Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 22-09-2004 at 09:56
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22-09-2004 07:49
Life, by nature- is not about purity.
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