22-09-2004 10:33									#61
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Well ted, then get it from the best and most credible source...

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3970

	22-09-2004 10:36									#62
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They need to update some of those though.

This is my fave:

quote: October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence “Barrier To Peace.” “And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel’s security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03) February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence “Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense.” “US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel’s construction of a security barrier as a ‘legitimate act of self defense’ after Sunday’s suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, ‘We don’t need another barrier to peace.’” (Janine Zacharia, “Kerry Defends Security Fence,” The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

	22-09-2004 10:40									#63
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quote: For lazy Drake

Since when is being busy equated with laziness? I do actually have to teach at work, you know...

quote: If you really believe they are simply general recommendations on what Bush should do and not Kerry's plan of attack for Iraq, then you are seriously deluded.

If it really is Kerry's plan of attack for Iraq, why didn't he present it as such? Why couch the plan as a recommendation to Bush if it's really your plan of action? Kerry's obviously giving himself some wiggle room with this phrasing; I'd like to know why. Why not present a clear-cut plan for Iraq, finally?

	22-09-2004 10:51									#64
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quote: Why couch the plan as a recommendation to Bush

Since when he did he couch it as a recommendation to Bush? He is saying what a President should do in this situation and highlighting the fact that Bush isn't doing it; therefore, he isn't doing what a person who is the President should be doing in Iraq. It's akin to a 'reasonable President' standard. A reasonable President should do X, Y, Z, meaning that Kerry will do X, Y, and Z, but Bush has failed to do so on all accounts and won't be able to in the future (like Bush can really get the allies back no matter what he does). When he says "The President should" he is contrasting what a President should do (ie, what he'd do) and what Bush is doing, which is opposed to it.

When Bush in 2000 said a that the President should stand for integrity was he making a recommendation to President Clinton or setting out how he was different from Clinton?

Do you really think that he is saying these things so that Bush does them between now and the election? Really?

	22-09-2004 10:53									#65
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Well, when he recommends that "the President" should hold a summit this week, it shouldn't take a ****ing rocket scientist to figure out who he's talking about...

edit:

quote: Do you really think that he is saying these things so that Bush does them between now and the election? Really?

What do think he meant by this?

quote: The President should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly.

OMG, you are so ****ing pwned.

	22-09-2004 10:55									#66
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And like I said, he is contrasting what a normal, rational President (ie, like himself) would do and contrasts that with Bush. The President should hold a summit this week, but Bush won't. If Kerry was President he would hold a summit this week and if he's elected he'll hold a summit as soon as possible. He's showing the contrasts between Bush's actions and a reasonable President's actions. Bush won't do what should be done, but I will - is the just.

It's quite obvious that Kerry has laid out a plan for Iraq here.

	22-09-2004 10:56									#67
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc They need to update some of those though. This is my fave: quote: October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence “Barrier To Peace.” “And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel’s security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03) February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence “Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense.” “US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel’s construction of a security barrier as a ‘legitimate act of self defense’ after Sunday’s suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, ‘We don’t need another barrier to peace.’” (Janine Zacharia, “Kerry Defends Security Fence,” The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

A legitimate act of self-defense can be a barrier to peace

	22-09-2004 10:59									#68
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quote: Do you really think that he is saying these things so that Bush does them between now and the election? Really?

quote: But we cannot afford to wait until January. President Bush owes it to the American people to tell the truth and put Iraq on the right track. Even more, he owes it to our troops and their families, whose sacrifice is a testament to the best of America.

Obviously Kerry isn't making a recommendation to Bush!

	22-09-2004 11:02									#69
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Funny, because that is well after the four major points he makes to win the peace in Iraq.

Nice try to take something unrelated to the plan for Iraq and attempt to try to make it fit in there.

And even there, once again, Kerry is saying that is what a reasonable President would do... and Bush ain't going to do that.

	22-09-2004 11:04									#70
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Well after? It's only five paragraphs after Kerry starts his "fourth" point!

edit: And it comes in the paragraph that functions as the closing of Kerry's "four points"! Yep, it's totally unrelated!

	22-09-2004 11:05									#71
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And of course you ignore the most salient statement after his four points:

quote: This is what has to be done. This is what I would do as President today.

Not calling it is own plan?

Face it... you've been PWNED.

	22-09-2004 11:07									#72
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quote: And it comes in the paragraph that functions as the closing of Kerry's "four points"!

You mean the one where Kerry says that it is his plan and Bush won't do any of it? Yeah, that's a real 'recommendation' to Bush.

	22-09-2004 11:08									#73
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You can't PWN somebody who is right, Imran.

	22-09-2004 11:08									#74
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I don't care what Kerry says he would do as President today, since that's impossible and he'll never be called on it. What I'd like is for him to go on the record about what he plans to do in Iraq if elected. Straight up, not presented as some easily dismissable set of recommendations for Bush. I want the man to take a stand on an issue for a change.

	22-09-2004 11:09									#75
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quote: You can't PWN somebody who is right, Imran.

You tell him, Fezzie.

	22-09-2004 11:09									#76
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quote: ou can't PWN somebody who is right

Exactly, so I can't be PWNED. Thanks Fez!

quote: What I'd like is for him to go on the record about what he plans to do in Iraq if elected.

Do we have to direct you to read the speech AGAIN?

	22-09-2004 11:10									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: You can't PWN somebody who is right, Imran. You tell him, Fezzie.

Haha, Fez is on your side... you automatically loooose

	22-09-2004 11:10									#78
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Drake, that was the Kiss of Death...

	22-09-2004 11:12									#79
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quote: Do we have to direct you to read the speech AGAIN?

Go ahead. The last time you directed me back to the speech, I pwned your ass. Do you really want a second round? It'll be pretty simple to show that Kerry is talking about hypotheticals (like what he would do if he were president now) as opposed to actually laying out a plan that he will implement after his inaguration in January, if elected.

	22-09-2004 11:13									#80
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quote: Haha, Fez is on your side... you automatically loooose

I thought he was on your side...

quote: Exactly, so I can't be PWNED. Thanks Fez!

	22-09-2004 11:15									#81
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quote: The principles that should guide American policy in Iraq now and in the future are clear: We must make Iraq the world’s responsibility, because the world has a stake in the outcome and others should share the burden.

I can hear the laughing all over 'old' Europe.

The guy's got to be dreaming if he sees any country lining up to send troops to Iraq. There's no way in hell I want to see any Canadians go to Iraq as things stand. It's a **** storm of your own making. Deal with it.

	22-09-2004 11:15									#82
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****, sixth period just ended. Looks like Imran gets a reprieve...

	22-09-2004 11:16									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: ou can't PWN somebody who is right Exactly, so I can't be PWNED. Thanks Fez!

No actually I can't be PWNED, because I'm right and you're wrong. And there is a knock on my door... my guy... later my socially deficient friends.

	22-09-2004 11:19									#84
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quote: It'll be pretty simple to show that Kerry is talking about hypotheticals (like what he would do if he were president now) as opposed to actually laying out a plan that he will implement after his inaguration in January, if elected.

Usually when a challenger says what an incumbant should be doing (but isn't), most rational people take that to be the challenger's plan which s/he will implement when elected. Then again, I guess I never claimed you were rational.

Though I guess it must be nice for you to continue getting pwned so badly and yet somehow think you are coming out ahead.

	22-09-2004 11:23									#85
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His plan is full of ****. How is he going to get other nations to send troops?

	22-09-2004 11:23									#86
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Good speech, but this bit is a bit bothering:

quote: This month, we passed a cruel milestone: more than 1,000 Americans lost in Iraq. Their sacrifice reminds us that Iraq remains, overwhelmingly, an American burden. Nearly 90 percent of the troops – and nearly 90 percent of the casualties – are American. Despite the President’s claims, this is not a grand coalition.

He doesn't mention anything about the Iraqi casualities. Does he think, that American people don't care about the Iraqis? But of course, he's talking to the american voters - not to the world.

I would like to say to the US administration "you reap what you sow", but I agree that the whole world should help in the rebuilding of Iraq. The war (which ended 18 months or so ago) has done enough damage.

Peace

	22-09-2004 11:23									#87
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Maybe Nixon should have sought French troops for Vietnam?

	22-09-2004 11:25									#88
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He'll be many times more likely to have other countries to send some troops than Bush will. After Kerry's elections, I can easily see a thawing of relations resulting in UN Security Council resolutions authorizing a peacekeeping mission in Iraq. I think you underestimate how much the Euros despise Bush and how the way he went about Iraq made them oppose it so strongly. A US President that treats Europe with respect and dignity, I think, can make a dent over there.

It starts with the removal of Dear Leader Bush.

	22-09-2004 11:26									#89
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Hey Fez, don't feel too bad about being stood up. You'll get a social life sooner or later.

	22-09-2004 11:28									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui He'll be many times more likely to have other countries to send some troops than Bush will. After Kerry's elections, I can easily see a thawing of relations resulting in UN Security Council resolutions authorizing a peacekeeping mission in Iraq. I think you underestimate how much the Euros despise Bush and how the way he went about Iraq made them oppose it so strongly. A US President that treats Europe with respect and dignity, I think, can make a dent over there. It starts with the removal of Dear Leader Bush.

I think you're dreaming a world of wishful thinking.

The US/UK have a very big problem on your hands. You are assuming others are going to be willing to clean up the mess.