22-09-2004 17:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by axi And what's more, today public transport is free only 5.00-17.00, as if everybody is back home by 17.00... Stupid ****s...

Still cheaper than cars generally so why complain?

	22-09-2004 18:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Sounds like a great idea. How does it work? Are cars just banned from the city core?

Most cars. From 8 AM to 7 PM.
As stated above ambulance, police, firefighters, public transports, taxis and some professionals (doctors, security) are allowed.
You may get also a special permit under special circimstances (handicap people, ...).
Driving rules still apply, but the speed limit is set to 30 kph for non-emergency vehicles (taxis, ...).

	22-09-2004 18:40									#33
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Cars:

	22-09-2004 18:58									#34
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Some cities need to implement EZ-link cards.

http://www.transitlink.com.sg/services_main.html

	22-09-2004 19:23									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I routinely drive 30 + miles during certain days. I don't feel like taking all ****ing day to get there either.

Only 30? I live in a smallish town and I routinely travel at least 20, but quite often up to 40-50 miles a day (though never in one stretch) -- all by bike. Unless traffic is a real b*tch that doesn't take more than 4 hours (10-15 miles/hour is quite a realistic and comfortable speed) and is excellent exercise

Of course, Dutch infrastructure is ideally suited for bicycling (with special lanes and roads reserved specifically for bikes, etc). This is rarely the case outside the Netherlands, so it might be less convenient to travel by bike then. But it being too much effort or taking too much time is in my experience only an issue if you really live in the middle of nowhere and even the most basic facilities are 20 miles or more away...

	22-09-2004 22:02									#36
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Wonder how many US cities are participating in that anti-car idiocy? I mean, come on - riding a bike around a major city?

What's wrong with that? I do. If I need to go farther, I either take public transportation or rent a car.

	22-09-2004 22:21									#37
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I'll often ride my bike 20-30km in a day. Even living in the cambrian shield, with hills all over the place, I get by fine. I just wish there where less highways and more bike lanes and trails.

	22-09-2004 22:25									#38
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The truth is that if people walked more or bicycled more instead of driving their car, they'd get more healthy exercise, would be less overweight and wouldn't have to go on these idiotic diets.

	22-09-2004 22:40									#39
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anti-car idiocy?

	22-09-2004 23:36									#40
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Yeah, we should privatise the roads. I'm sure toll booths on every junction would allieviate Paris' traffic problems.

	22-09-2004 23:40									#41
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Cars:

Environmentally unfriendly bicycles:

	22-09-2004 23:45									#42
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Without a car, it takes me roughly an hour and a half to get to school (using the schoolbuses). In a car, it takes me forty minutes.

Cars

	22-09-2004 23:46									#43
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I live in Colorado, the epitome of "we have lots of space, lets build everything horizontally!" Because of that, we're a lot bigger area-wise than most metros in other areas that have a lot larger populations.

Public transport is complete crap (though they're trying to push forward more light rail stuff, but most people don't care anyways), so a car is a necessity.

	22-09-2004 23:47									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Yeah, we should privatise the roads. I'm sure toll booths on every junction would allieviate Paris' traffic problems.

They already have tollbooths on every junction. Well, not on every junction, but on most major motorways anyway...

	23-09-2004 04:29									#45
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how do you carry all your groceries if you are riding a bycycle?

green freaks

	23-09-2004 05:11									#46
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Cars
Bikes
Public transport
Singapore's public transport

	23-09-2004 05:13									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident how do you carry all your groceries if you are riding a bycycle? green freaks

Backpack, or cargo bags on the bike.


If you're a real glutton, you could get an attachable trailer.

	23-09-2004 07:41									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Would never fly in Korea. Too many goddam hills

Wuzz

	23-09-2004 07:53									#49
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Simply put European cities were built when there were no cars, so cars are an unplanned addition.

American cities were designed for fars, so things naturally spaced themselves because they could.

Now it is possible for me to walk across Norfolk (a medium sized city) but not for practical buisness.

quote: American cities on teh East Coast, are actually quite small

You must be talking about a different East Coast.

	23-09-2004 08:05									#50
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Cars are stupid, throw rocks at them.

	23-09-2004 08:10									#51
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The cyclists in Toronto are ****ing morons.

They abide by rules of the road and pedestrians, whenever it's convenient. They'll take up a whole ****ing lane of traffic going pathetically slow, they'll cut you off without signalling, they'll drive on the shoulder just enough so you can't pass...

Boo to cyclists. Take public transit or walk or drive a car, get off the f*cking road.

	23-09-2004 08:16									#52
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I'll often ride my bike 20-30km in a day. Even living in the cambrian shield, with hills all over the place, I get by fine. I just wish there where less highways and more bike lanes and trails.

And you do that in February too, do you?

	23-09-2004 08:18									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dry Most cars. From 8 AM to 7 PM. As stated above ambulance, police, firefighters, public transports, taxis and some professionals (doctors, security) are allowed. You may get also a special permit under special circimstances (handicap people, ...). Driving rules still apply, but the speed limit is set to 30 kph for non-emergency vehicles (taxis, ...).

Is this just in the downtown business area? Does it apply to side streets.

The one problem I see with this idea is what happens if you live in the no-car zone? Let's say you go away on a trip and arrive back in town on a Sunday. Would the no-car rules allow you to drive home?

	23-09-2004 08:26									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Without cars, riding a bike around a major city in Europe or on the east coast would be a breeze. What you fail to appreciate is that most European cities, and most American cities on teh East Coast, are actually quite small, and easily bikeable. You don't get to hideous, sprawling metropolises until you move further west.

No cars would mean a lot more bikes, and potentially bike traffic jams, bike traffic laws, etc.

	23-09-2004 08:30									#55
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He is also counting the cities of the Americas that are not snow infested, sub-zero wastelands for 3 to 4 months of the year. What do people do then? The whole city takes an extended vacation to Florida?

	23-09-2004 08:35									#56
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Plus, not that this is a reason to necessarily keep cars around, but there is a hell of a lot of this economy that is involved in cars.

Gas stations, mechanics, stores that sell autoparts, autopart manufacturers, auto makers, auto dealers, used car lots, newspapers that get revenue from selling car adspace and classifieds, etc. I work at an autoparts store, and I'd wager cars make up a nice percentage of the economy with all that goes into and out of them.

Just an observation. I know the economy would adapt.

But Americans love their cars. Its too intertwined in our culture to ever change.

	23-09-2004 08:41									#57
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Not to mention that 3/4s of the continent would not be viable for significant population at an acceptable standard of living without motor vehicles.

Take the areas outside of the Washington-Boston corridor, LA to SanFran, and Montreal to Windsor and the simple realities of distance and population densities mandate that autos will be required for most people to live and work.

	23-09-2004 08:43									#58
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And I think there's only decent train service in one of those three areas of large population density that I mentioned.

	23-09-2004 08:59									#59
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP No cars would mean a lot more bikes, and potentially bike traffic jams, bike traffic laws, etc.

Yeah, but bikes are a lot smaller and more maneuverable than cars. And don't leap to the "cars can carry more people argument"; look around any urban traffic jam, and what you'll see is almost everyone sitting in their cars alone.

In fact, recently my family and I had to drive to Pittsburgh from DC on a Friday night. DC traffic on a Friday is murder, but we had no problem. Why? Because we were one of of the few vehicles on the road that could use the HOV lane. But going in the same direction were 4-6 lanes of traffic, all sitting at a standstill, all with one driver per vehicle.

Sorry, but America's love affair with the car just plain sucks.

Walkable cities:
Bikeable cities:
Cities with good public transit:
Amsterdam:

	23-09-2004 09:03									#60
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP But Americans love their cars. Its too intertwined in our culture to ever change.

I'm looking forward to owning a car when I move back to Canada, but at the same time, I like living in a city where I don't have to drive. It's great being able to get everything I need within walking distance.

North American cities are designed for cars, but this isn't something written in stone. If North Americans implemented a toll system like the one in Singapore (it cost money to drive into the downtown core) then people and building designs would adapt.

A starting point is to permanently close off a section of road (say aobut 1km) and turn into a open-air mall.