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David Floyd is offline David Floyd
King
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
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time: 05:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 12:34 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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What a bunch of 'tards.... Support Apolyton

Paris hosts car-free day -- just before major motor show

PARIS (AFP) - One of the biggest motor shows in the world is set to take place in Paris this week -- but not before the city makes another display of its crusade against the car that it hopes will transform the capital into a haven for pedestrians and cyclists.

The French capital is on Wednesday to host the annual car-free day it launched six years ago and which is now copied by 1,100 other cities, most of them in Europe.

But then, just three days later, starting Saturday, the Paris International Motor Show is to open its doors, attracting one and a half million visitors over the following two weeks.

The juxtaposition of events highlights the love-hate relationship with cars that has taken hold of the French capital.

The left-wing municipal council has all but declared war on private four-wheeled transport by laying down road-hogging bus lanes and cycle paths, expanding plans for a tramway and paving over thousands of parking spaces.

It has also expressed a wish to see bulky four-wheel drive vehicles favoured by wealthier residents banned entirely from city streets.

But the conservative national government under President Jacques Chirac has provided little support.

As a result, the car-free day introduced in 1998 by the then-Socialist government is in decline. In 2002, 98 French cities and towns participated. Last year, it was 72. This year, there will only be 50.

The organisers say that is because September 22 falls in the middle of the week, posing a problem for authorities trying to balance economic and transport necessities and raising the possibility that the day might be moved to a Sunday from next year.

Some of those that are taking part this year are offering free public transport on the day.

Many other European cities, including London, Madrid and Stockholm will be following suit in banning cars from streets, but Rome and Berlin will not.

Farther afield the initiative has proved a bust. Only Montreal in Canada, 17 Brazilian towns and cities, a handful of Japanese cities and Taipei have joined what was once hoped would become a worldwide experiment in urban living without the omnipresent car.

"The initiative is seeing a certain ebb," French Environment Minister Serge Lepeltier told journalists last week.

That prompted the Paris municipal official in charge of city transport, Denis Baupin, to decry a "disengagement by the state" that he said could put an end to the annual event altogether.

Come the weekend, the whole debate is likely to be largely forgotten though, when the Paris Motor Show grabs headlines with its flashy series of concept cars and innovative grandstanding.

More than 60 new models are to be unveiled during the two-week exhibition, during which 480 manufacturers from 26 countries show off their latest goods.

This year, though, the emphasis is likely to be less on the extravagantly powerful and luxurious vehicles -- although they will still provide the glamour quotient -- than on the generally depressed state of car sales almost everywhere and the effect the sky-high price of oil is having on the industry.

Chirac, who is to officially open the show, is said to be ready to highlight "clean" cars, such as a model Citroen is bringing out and hybrid vehicles from Toyota as his contribution to acknowledging the pollution problem caused by current private transport.

********************

Wonder how many US cities are participating in that anti-car idiocy? I mean, come on - riding a bike around a major city?

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 12:44
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Without cars, riding a bike around a major city in Europe or on the east coast would be a breeze. What you fail to appreciate is that most European cities, and most American cities on teh East Coast, are actually quite small, and easily bikeable. You don't get to hideous, sprawling metropolises until you move further west.

Myself, I routinely used to walk the length of Manhattan from the Upper West Side down to the tip of the island, and then over the Brooklyn Bridge to my apartment in Brooklyn. It was a lovely walk, and would have made a great bike ride if I could have done it without getting killed.

I've also walked across Paris, Amsterdam, London and Boston, all eminently walkable/bikeable.

Clearly, you need to get out of Texas and see some real cities.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
Wonder how many US cities are participating in that anti-car idiocy? I mean, come on - riding a bike around a major city?


Our cities tend to be a bit more spread out, on average.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 12:49
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I say 'our' as in the Americas. I live in an extremely large city, with fewer than 1 million residents.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 12:49
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@ Paris

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 13:11
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It's also worth pointing out that, if we could bike around our cities safely, we might not be the fattest f*cks in the history of the human race.

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 13:56
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European city centres were simply not built for cars. Underground subway trains, trams/tolleys/street cars, buses, etc can all be adapted for operating in a European city but the sheer bulk of private car traffic just brings gridlock and chaos.

London stretches on for ages but even it's compact compared to the nightmarish urban sprawl of the America's.

Flandrien is offline Flandrien
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Belgium
May 2000
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:01
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Car-free days in Belgium are always on a sunday.
Like for example last sunday in Brussels, Antwerp and Gent.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:04 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd Wonder how many US cities are participating in that anti-car idiocy? I mean, come on - riding a bike around a major city?


You should see Amsterdam.

Natalinasmpf is offline Natalinasmpf
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Sep 2003
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:06
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I wish I could ride a bike in a major city.

Well I can in Singapore, if I knew how to ride.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with biking in a major city, especially when you've got 25+ shopping malls and dozens of other landmarks, within 15 km's reach. Then one can bike down to Sentosa, an island resort 20 km from where I live....

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:07
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Another thread by David F, where he manages to underline his own sexual insecurity in a failed attempt to do the opposite.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:08 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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I bet he'd have thought it was ok if they all had to ride horses not bikes.

Last edited by MikeH on 22-09-2004 at 16:14

Locutus is offline Locutus
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:12 Visit Locutus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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You mean there are other ways to get around then by bike?

[/Dutch]

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:36
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What about police cars/ambullances/people who have an emergency of some sort?

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:38
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Would never fly in Korea. Too many goddam hills

MikeH is offline MikeH
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:39 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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They are still allowed, obviously.

http://www.metropoleparis.com/1998/339/339nocar.html

It is a stupid idea though I think personally.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Flandrien
Car-free days in Belgium are always on a sunday.
Like for example last sunday in Brussels, Antwerp and Gent.


Sounds like a great idea. How does it work? Are cars just banned from the city core?

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Oct 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
It's also worth pointing out that, if we could bike around our cities safely, we might not be the fattest f*cks in the history of the human race.


You better calm down before you burst a blood vessel, all that healthy living of yours will go to waste


To everyone

Not everyone lives and works in the confines of a city. Some people have to actually go outside the city and cummute. Cars are an absolute necessity for some people especially if they feel like actually living in a place that has a lawn instead of in the middle of an apartment complex. I routinely drive 30 + miles during certain days. I don't feel like taking all ****ing day to get there either.

Drogue is offline Drogue
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 16:57 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
Wonder how many US cities are participating in that anti-car idiocy? I mean, come on - riding a bike around a major city?

Actually looking at traffic, I laugh at people trying to drive round major cities. I get there twice as fast on a bike, and get my exercise too

Drogue is offline Drogue
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:02 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Not everyone lives and works in the confines of a city. Some people have to actually go outside the city and cummute. Cars are an absolute necessity for some people especially if they feel like actually living in a place that has a lawn instead of in the middle of an apartment complex. I routinely drive 30 + miles during certain days. I don't feel like taking all ****ing day to get there either.

Park and ride? Public transport that isn't a joke? Many people live out if cities and commute in, it doesn't mean you have to do it with a car. Moreover, in most cities I know, the sheer volume of congestion and number of traffic jams means it would take all day with a car.

to Paris.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Drogue

Actually looking at traffic, I laugh at people trying to drive round major cities. I get there twice as fast on a bike, and get my exercise too


which is ok if you live in the city. Would you ride your bike if you had to commute from farther out.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Drogue

Park and ride? Public transport that isn't a joke? Many people live out if cities and commute in, it doesn't mean you have to do it with a car. Moreover, in most cities I know, the sheer volume of congestion and number of traffic jams means it would take all day with a car.

to Paris.


Public Transport is a joke here.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Drogue

Park and ride? Public transport that isn't a joke? Many people live out if cities and commute in, it doesn't mean you have to do it with a car. Moreover, in most cities I know, the sheer volume of congestion and number of traffic jams means it would take all day with a car.

to Paris.


Park where? Id rather just take my car on into the city and do what I have to do instead of parking on the outskirts, waiting for public transport, then do what i have to do then wait on public transport and then....... I mean people who live in the city should be required to walk or use public transport and leave the driving to those visiting the city

MikeH is offline MikeH
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:07 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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That's mostly what happens in London, but there are so many million people traveling into London every day that the roads couldn't cope if they all drove.

Drogue is offline Drogue
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:13 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Public Transport is a joke here.

Which is the bigger problem, IMHO

quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Park where? Id rather just take my car on into the city and do what I have to do instead of parking on the outskirts, waiting for public transport, then do what i have to do then wait on public transport and then....... I mean people who live in the city should be required to walk or use public transport and leave the driving to those visiting the city

I always use the park and ride going to Oxford. It's quicker, cheaper and easier. Because parking in Oxford is a nightmare, and there's a bus ever 5 minutes from the park and ride. Park on the outskirts, just off the dual carriageway, to avoid the queue getting into the centre, and take the bus

What counts as 'in the city'? Very few people live in the city centre. In most European cities, driving in a major city isn't an option, even from outside the city, it's easier to use public transport. I've never driven into London, I always use the train. 1 hour 20 mins and you're in the centre, takes at least that in a car, plus another half an hour at least to find a parking space, and more money than the train ticket to park it for a day. Plus the hours of congestion that you're likely to face. I've never even thought of driving into central London, it isn't an option.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:15 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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Someone already pointed out that European city transport problems are different from US problems. You can't really compare the two.

axi is offline axi
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Athens Greece
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:21
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Talking about juxtaposition of events, our authorities are supposed to support the no car day, but they have recently banned bicyclists from riding on the urban railway. And they are thinking of allowing petroleum motered private cars into the cities, while we have a smog problem and it is known that we can't effectively control the quality of the fuel, which means lots of extra emmissions.

And what's more, today public transport is free only 5.00-17.00, as if everybody is back home by 17.00...

Stupid ****s...

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:21
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Yeah, those motor shows are full of 'tards.

quote:
Wonder how many US cities are participating in that anti-car idiocy? I mean, come on - riding a bike around a major city?
Bicycles (or public transport) are the quickest and cheapest way of geting around a major city. There is no logic at all to using a car in an urban environment at all, actually, since you're just traveling shrot distances. You could use that argument in rural areas, perhaps, but urban?


Oh, and... http://neistat.com/pages/video_hold...nel_holding.htm

axi is offline axi
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Athens Greece
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:38
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quote:
What counts as 'in the city'? Very few people live in the city centre.


I don't live in the city centre, but still I have a hard time finding a parking spot in my own neighbourhood. Our neighbourhoods are too dense.

I also don't work at the city centre and this means that in order to get from home to work I have to use public transportation routes that are unreliable or drive and face the congestion and the parking problem.

It usually takes me 25-30 min to drive and park from home to work and vice versa. Today I left the car home and used two buses that I didn't have to wait for long (under 5 minutes each) and it took me 55 min. The two buses could have required me to wait 20 min for each of them, meaning that it could have been 85 min. Three years ago, when I didn't drive, the public transport was a tad worse and I had to pass through the city centre, using 2 buses which would take me 90 min average or using one bus that would take me 80 min average, but for ride of 55 min and I would have to walk for about 20 min (wait 5). Many times, I just walked the distance and it took me exactly 75 min, but it was rather tiring because the terrain is hilly and the streets are polluted, which is bad for the lungs. The distance we are talking about is just about 5km. I didn't consider bicycling, because it's too dangerous around here and I don't have a convenient spot to store the bike.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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  Old Post 22-09-2004 17:39 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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I live in a relatively small town in the UK, about 100,000 people but part of a larger urban area. To cycle from one side of what's officially the town to the other would take half an hour, it's about 5 miles. Depending on traffic etc.

Put in context of a much, much larger US City...

 
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