23-09-2004 09:06									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

One driver per vehicle

	23-09-2004 09:08									#62
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger One driver per vehicle

What do you do if you live 60 miles from your jobsite and don't have mass transit to get there?

	23-09-2004 09:31									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Walk

	23-09-2004 09:49									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Move

	23-09-2004 10:01									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Simply put European cities were built when there were no cars, so cars are an unplanned addition. American cities were designed for fars, so things naturally spaced themselves because they could. Now it is possible for me to walk across Norfolk (a medium sized city) but not for practical buisness. You must be talking about a different East Coast.

I have lived there. Walking accross Norfolk isn't the safest thing in the world.

Norfolk is actually fairly small. A bike would work well there. But if you lived in Virginia Beach. Or where I lived- Hampton and in Newport News- a bicycle is out of the question. I don't even think you can take a bicycle in the tunnel. Not that I would want to. Those fumes will seriously **** you up. I have lived in Hampton fairly close to the tunnel, but even that is like 8 miles to the navy base I think. And I have lived near the Oyster Point area in Newport News. That was like a 20 mile drive to work everyday.

	23-09-2004 10:08									#66
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Move

Brilliant. And if you work construction and have sites move around on you?

	23-09-2004 10:11									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

the simple fact is we are stuck. Our cities are designed for automobiles. If they weren't, we could make roads narrower, and cities would be much smaller making bicycles practical. To illustrate this point, I urge you to come to Las Vegas. We have very wide roads, and very small lots for houses (we live in a densely populated city) You could probably fit 3 houses in the width of one of our arterial roads. Think of how much space you could save if the roads were half as big (enough to allow service vehicles such as amublance, garbage trucks etc, and bicycles).

	23-09-2004 10:13									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Cars

No car days

Hell, I take the mass transit into work, but I have to drive 5 miles to get there. And I'd rather get the extra sleep. And Atlanta weather without air conditioning? You must be joking!

	23-09-2004 10:15									#69
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No. The simple fact is we live in a sparsely populated area where mobility should be a right, not a priviledge.

This is not Western Europe, where population density is bursting the seams. This is where it is common to have to drive a hundred miles to go to work, there are no trains for commuting, and the auto is our iron horse.

	23-09-2004 10:22									#70
	Get a bigger avatar today!

my city actually has a pretty high density. Right up there with Chicago. Pretty impressive for a city with less than 2 million people.

In fact. I have been thinking about getting a bike and riding it to work. I have to go through some so-so neighborhoods, but I think I'll be alright. But I won't ride on the street. I'll ride on the sidewalk. cops really don't mess with you if you ride on the sidewalk where I live. Although it depends on where you are. They certainly will harrass you if you ride on the sidewalk on the strip!

Riding on the road is a deathtrap. Because everybody drinks and drives where I live. we have the most pedestrian deaths of any city. Though part of the blame resides with pedestrians- because everyone jaywalks in my city.

But for me it is only 6 miles to work. I don't live in a great neighborhood- hence why it is so close to work. The good neighborhoods are much further from the center of the city.

My brother rides his bike to work. I think it's about the same distance. This is the reason why I've been thinking about it. He's doing it to get in better shape. I don't really care what shape I'm in, I just want more challenge in my life. My life is boring.

the main reason I don't ride a bike is time. I figure it will take me an hour to ride a bike 6 miles to work. This is because my city has many traffic lights. You can't run most of those safely. These really slow you up. It takes 20 to 25 minutes by vehicle to travel 6 miles. A bicycle may even take longer than 1 hour, I'd have to try it out.

	23-09-2004 10:26									#71
	Tired of ads?

Dude, you live in VEGAS! It kinda gets hot there. Riding bikes all the time is silly. And without cars your city would die a slow horrible death. A great number of people drive into Vegas in their cars from neighboring states.

And nye is right. North America is a sparsely populated area. You should know it. Outside of Vegas there is litterly nothing for miles.

	23-09-2004 10:29									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

of course I would use my vehicle for riding out of the city! You'd die riding out in the desert on a bicycle (without support vehicles etc.- competition riders do it all the time actually)

of course I could also take a bus to work. But I really wouln't be saving any money by doing that, unless I got rid of my vehicle. My route closely follows desert inn road, so I wouldn't have to do any transers. But there are 2 streches of 1 mile each the bus doesn't cover. I'd have to walk or take the bike on the bus (the buses have racks on the front of them for bikes)

	23-09-2004 10:30									#73
	Suffering from ads?

Bingo... so you end up proving our point about needing a car in North America .

	23-09-2004 10:31									#74
	Remove this text

Then do it. No one is saying you MUST drive.

Just saying that all should ride bikes is silly.

	23-09-2004 10:32									#75
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Bingo... so you end up proving our point about needing a car in North America .

but that doesn't squelch my idea of cities being car free. You could force cities to be car free by- well brute force of course.. The cars could be parked outside the city for when the citizens want to travel to other cities. But car travel in the city would be restricted.

	23-09-2004 10:37									#76
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I went for 5 years without driving. I lived on or near campus. I walked, everywhere. I even let my drivers license expire.

Boy, was that a mistake. When I needed to drive again I faced insurance rates as a new driver with no track record. I payed through the hoop for that one.

	23-09-2004 10:39									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dissident but that doesn't squelch my idea of cities being car free. You could force cities to be car free by- well brute force of course.. The cars could be parked outside the city for when the citizens want to travel to other cities. But car travel in the city would be restricted.

You could move to Mars too. Just isn't very practical.

	23-09-2004 10:41									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: but that doesn't squelch my idea of cities being car free.

Sure it does. When people want to come to Vegas from, say, California, what are you going to do? Make them all fly? That'd kill your city and you know it.

Restricting car travel may work in Europe, but it'd sink the American economy within days of its implimentation (if not less).

And Vegas is in the middle of the desert. It gets hot there. You need A/C in a lot of American cities and you need heat in a lot of American and Canadian cities just in order to survive a commute.

The first person that tries to stop cars from being in my city, I'll run over with my car .

	23-09-2004 10:42									#79
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That would be just. Live by the car, die by the car.

	23-09-2004 10:43									#80
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: but that doesn't squelch my idea of cities being car free. Sure it does. When people want to come to Vegas from, say, California, what are you going to do? Make them all fly? That'd kill your city and you know it. Restricting car travel may work in Europe, but it'd sink the American economy within days of its implimentation (if not less). And Vegas is in the middle of the desert. It gets hot there. You need A/C in a lot of American cities and you need heat in a lot of American and Canadian cities just in order to survive a commute. The first person that tries to stop cars from being in my city, I'll run over with my car .

needing A/C is a myth. I plan on riding a bike to work next summer. And yes, I'll be doing it in the hottest part of the day.

I've decided that when my vehicled finally breaks down, I will not buy another one. (unless plans change like me actually finding a girlfriend- unlikely).

My city has some of the highest insurance rates in the nation. Think of the money I'll be saving.

	23-09-2004 10:43									#81
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

... or oppose tham and die under one.

Either way, works for me.

	23-09-2004 10:44									#82
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dissident needing A/C is a myth. I plan on riding a bike to work next summer. And yes, I'll be doing it in the hottest part of the day.

You and all the other seniors.

	23-09-2004 11:09									#83
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither What do you do if you live 60 miles from your jobsite and don't have mass transit to get there?

Car pool?

	23-09-2004 11:10									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I don't even think you can take a bicycle in the tunnel. Not that I would want to. Those fumes will seriously **** you up.

What generates the fumes? Cars or something else?

	23-09-2004 11:11									#85
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: needing A/C is a myth.

Needing A/C in 100 degree F (in the shade) weather is a 'myth'. I'd love to see you try.

	23-09-2004 11:16									#86
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Car pool?

With who?

	23-09-2004 11:46									#87
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Brilliant. And if you work construction and have sites move around on you?

Some people need to mellow out.

IF we designed our cities for people rather than cars, then most construction workers would be able to reach job sites without a car.

The problem in North America is urban sprawl and that leads to a circular argument: We need cars because we have low population densities and we have low population densities because cities are designed for people with cars.

	23-09-2004 11:54									#88
	Tired of ads?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha!

Said someone totally out of touch with life in NA.

Here's a clue. We have low population densities because we have fewer people per square mile than any other developed area of the world.

There is a reason why Calgary doesn't have good train service from Kananaskis. It's called economics.

	23-09-2004 11:59									#89
	Inflate your Upload Space

I will admit though that our cities are designed for cars.

However, where are we gonna pull a city of 5 or 10 million out of the blue to plunk down on the praeries to justify a real mass transit system?

We're comparing ourselves to London, a city of 8 to 10 million. That city has a third of the population of the entire nation of Canada and could be comfortably plucked down within the city limits of Edmonton.

	23-09-2004 12:00									#90
	Support Apolyton

And the whole country could fit into the space between here and Red Deer. Or close.